Guys,
I just completed a rod for a friend and after three rods all coming out great I'm back to wavy epoxy over my label area. I can't seem to get a smooth 5"-6" area over the label on the flyrod. I apply the epoxy with a metal spatula and try to use as little as possible. However after 2 coats it looks wavy. Should I be brushing it on? Is it better to over apply and let it settle on the bottom and remove? How do you sand it smooth and not hurt the label? I really need a step by step explanation if someone has a second. Thanks for the help.
Steve

Put less on. Wavy finishes are the result of too much finish applied. Sand it down with a sanding block and put a thin coat over it.

Steve, i feel your pain, and Clyde is correct in too much finish resulting in uneven epoxy. But, if you done a search on this site, you would come up with more ways of applying epoxy than you could even imagine.

You would find it's applied with everything from cutup credit cards to brushes. Some apply finish in very thin coats. Some apply it heavy and after it sags removes the excess. My point being, you will just have to experiment to really learn the working properties of the finish you are using, but will soon come up with a method that works well for you.

I've tried most suggestions I've read on this site from credit cards to spatulas and have since returned to good quailty sable brushes and thin coats while hand turning the rod.

Applying finish is more of what works for you, than a time used method.

Regards......Doug@
TCRds

As Doug says, it's what works for you. Just to balance things out, I'm one of those who apply a lot with a metal spatula, then remove excess that collects on the bottom (turning 180 degrees often). Have not had an unhappy result since doing it that way. But I also pay attention to some other details: wash hands thoroughly before touching anything, touch the decal as little as possible while trimming and applying it, touch the area where it goes not at all.

If the temperature of the room is high it will set fast. I like a cool room it helps the finish flow. I also use a brush and put it on a quick turner, then brush it lengh wise. Now a little block sanding and a thin coat

Tom Doyle:
Just curious what finish you use with your method? I'm aware there's no one miracle product that works perfectly for all. As a rookie builder I'm still struggling with applying finish and have a lot more experimenting to do. My results so far are not really that bad, but am still getting a few bubbles in an otherwise perfect wrap. These bubbles seem to orient primarily just off the sides of the guide feet. Torching the wet wrap does not help. These bubbles must be surfacing further into the drying process. I also have the same problem as Steve with levelness over the inscription area. I've tried applying the epoxy, using both heavy and light coats, ( only tried Flex Coat Lite & High Build so far) with the 1/8" or 1/4" disposable brushes that come with the Flex coat kits and have also tried the cut-up credit card method. It may have been my technique, but I didn't care for the credit card method. I haven't tried a Sable brush yet. I've applied my finish so far while rotating the rod on a 5 rpm motor which seems way slow to me. Was thinking of trying something in the 20-50 rpm range for applying the finish, then transfer the section to one of my 4-5 rpm motors for drying, but was concerned that the higher rpm might generate more bubbles. It's probably just my inexperience but it seems to take me too long to get the finish on at 5 rpm and the finish starts to set up long before I use up what I've mixed. Generally only mix 2 cc at a time. I've never had a "no or partial cure" situation that seem to plague so many new new builders. Anyway, how do you go about removing the excess that sags to the bottom of the wrap? Do you apply your finish while rotating the rod by hand or use a motor? If a motor what rpm? I've read a lot on this board about Joe Kassuba's metal spatula method. Where can I get one of these to try? If I wanted to thin the epoxy to extend the application time a little what is the best solvent to use, denatured alcohol, acetone or what, and how much should be added? Sorry about the long post. Just trying to get a little more insight into a problem spot that has bugged me.

Thanks again to Tom Kirkman for providing this forum and to all you experienced builders that take the time to share your knowledge with new guys like me. Without a source such as this board the learning curve would be much longer and a great deal more painful.

Regards,
Rick

Another thing to think about.
Put some air into say honey, making bubbles. How long if at all will the bubbles get to the surface???
Now do the same with some thing thinner, such as water, the bubbles go right to the surface and are gone!!

Try thinning your first coat of finish. You will get less bubbles if any. Not like water. But thinner.
Plus it will level out like glass

90 % of the time a wavy finish is a result of a too heavy epoxy application but I have found that you can apply it too thin also. If there isn't sufficient epoxy for a level coat some areas will starve as the epoxy sets up. This is rare but it can happen.

Stan Grace
Helena, MT
"Our best is none too good"

I quit trying to use epoxy for decals, inscriptions and feather inlay's and use Perma gloss or spar urethane applied with a sable brush. It does take a few extra coats, 3 or 4, but no mixing or bubbles.

I have just starting reusing spar again. Like the stuff
Your right there Stan It is a learning process. I thin out Glass Coat. It has a good set time and flows nice. Not like water though.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/28/2005 10:57AM by bill boettcher.

Dont know about some of the other stuff. I used Flex Coat high build, two layers on my last couple rods. Over the decals. I just chuck it into the dryer, and put on a thick coat with a good paintbrush, which I run back and forth till It seems theres an even layer, gotta add more in spots, or try to kindof "move it" elsewhere. It works fine, no bubbles or waves. Levi

Rick: First, I don't have the expertise and experience of some of the other builders on this forum, I've only been doing this for 2 1/2 years and I'm a low-volume builder. But I'm a retired guy with enough time to take time, and I do have an obsessive nature (which helps with this craft). Giving a long answer because you asked a long question:

I use mostly Flex Coat High Build, sometimes FC Lite. For applying it, I use a long, flat, rigid metal spatula (holdover from my research chemist days) that's about 3/8" wide at the square end. (I'm sure other types and shapes of spatulas, including plastic ones, would work just as well. Like most others, after mixing the epoxy, I pour it out onto a flat surface (a long stiff card, covered with aluminum foil), give it some time, then blow out the bubbles. The initial work is done all by hand, no motor yet. For a long decal or butt-wrap area (the techinque for guides is similar but a bit different) I just ladle the epoxy onto the spatula and dribble/pour it from above all over the wrap/decal, in great excess, to the point where the epoxy drips back onto the foil. I do not touch the wrap at all with the spatula while doing this, and certainly don't touch the decal. Then, alternately while applying for hte top, I place the spatula below the wrap, touching the epoxy but not the threads, and turn the blank by hand, which helps distribute the epoxy around the blank. Near the end of all this, still turning by hand, I inspect the results for any bare areas, and dribble more epoxy on as needed. At the edges of the wrap, I use the end of a toothpick to apply the epoxy, and don't use as much. You can also "push" the epoxy nearly up to the ends with the spatula.

When everything is covered, and sagging, even dripping quite a bit, I let it sit in one position for a short time, then, from below, bring a long edge of the spatula in contact with the epoxy and move it along the entire length, which causes much of the excess to fall onto the foil. Again, I do not touch the threads while doing this, at least not deliberately, the contact is with the epoxy. Then turn 180 degress, let sag, remove more excess. Keep turning 180, gradually increasing the time, at this point the epoxy tends to sag in particular areas, not in others, so remove it from these areas only, by touching the end of the spatula to these spots and pulling away, not by moving along the whole length. At around this point, it is useful to let the blank stay in that position a bit, after removing some, to let the epoxy "recover", before the next 180 degree turn. Keep looking for areas along the length where more epoxy collects than in other areas, and remove only from those. This is the key to an even coat.

You can keep doing this for up to an hour, gives a thinner coat, or you can stop sooner, as soon as sagging is minimal, such as in a half hour. At this point you can put it in your dryer, or just keep turning 180 by hand, but without removing any more epoxy.

Bubbles: Early on, you can pop the larger ones with an edge of the spatula. Later on, when in the dryer, flame the wrap. Bubbles which show up late, I stop the dryer and pop them with the point of a pin.

Finally: clean the spatula with alcohol, will last forever. Leave the foil out to test the epoxy whenever you get the urge. Walk away when you feel no more bubbles will show.

Hope that helps. This is just my way. I'm sure other ways work also.

Thanks Tom for your detailed reply. Also being trained in the sciences I can appreciate an "obsessive nature" especially with something so technique dependant as applying finish. In past attempts with either brush or spatula (credit card section) I have come into direct contact with the thread or bare blank in the inscription area during distribution of the finish in an attempt to get a light even coat. This procedure is more like a squeegee action perhaps removing too much finish. Your approach by only touching the finish and not the thread seems key here and should be very effective in keeping entrained air to a minimum. I will try this on my next attempt.

A question for any of you guys that thin your epoxy. What solvent is best and how much? If thinning with alcohol or acetone I suppose flamming the the wrap or epoxy puddle on your foil to rid bubbles is out of the question? Also for any that use a spatula, what type/configuration do you use and where can I get one to try? Especially interested in the one promoted by Joe Kassuba.

Thanks.
Rick

Epoxy coatings 1 Coat finish (available from Binghams was discussed at length awhile ago. I've used various finishes and I don't think that you could get a wavy finish with it if you tried! Last night I covered a 7" decal area with a coat , turned 180 degrees every 10/15 minutes and in an hour or so it was set (still tacky) and smooth as a sheet of glass!!!!! I turned the 3 rpm motor on at let it turn for a few more hours. I have never had anything but a glass smooth finish with it, no matter how I just threw it on. I just glop it on, spread it and let it do it's stuff.
[www.angelfire.com]

As far as long term, Putter has been using it for 20 years and he says it still holds up and looks good.

Mike