Just curioius.....

I am a recreational builder, therefore not much experience. Got real frustrated last night. Am currently working on several surf rods, all having cork tape grips. I have only built one surf rod to date, done a couple of butt extensions, grip replacements on rods, etc. On the first cork tape installation I did on a Tica surf rod that I extended the butt on last year, I used a thin layer of 30 minute epoxy on the butt to "lube" under the cork tape to help slide the cork tape around to snug up the seams tight and neat.

On the next one I did, I took the advice of someone here, Lou Reyna, I think, and used alcohol (just rubbing alcohol) as the lube under the cork tape and it worked GREAT. It seemed to be much quicker and neater...you couldn't see or feel any of the cork tape seams, at least compared to the first time I did it. This cork tape had adhesive on the back, but no "mesh" backing associated with the adhesive. This cork tape was supplied by Hatteras Outfitters with the kit I bought from them...not sure what "brand" of cork tape. The rod is a 12.5 foot Outcast and therefore has a large diameter butt.

Last night, I put the cork tape on the handles of the three rods I am currently building, using the alcohol (denatured alcohol this time) lube method. These rods are smaller (diameter) surf rods than the Oucast. The cork tape is a little different than the kind I used last time....it has a "mesh" associated with the adhesive. Expected it to be even easier due to my "vast experience" with cork tape now under my belt. Got frustrated real quick. The seams didn't seem to match up as well/neatly as last time. Once installed, the grips felt rough to the touch when a ran my palm along the grip. If you looked real careful, you could pick out a few of the seams. From memory, I seem to remember the first one I did with the alcohol lube method looking better?

The only differences I could think of were:

- The rods I am doing now are smaller diameter.....is it harder to get the cork tape to "fit right" on smaller diameter rods?
- I am using denatured alcohol as my lube this time versus just rubbing/drugtore type alcohol last time...doesn't seem this would make the difference?
- Are the two different styles of backing on the cork tape making the difference? Mesh backing versus non mesh backing?

OR......

I am wondering if the whole issue is that I am just getting sicker and sicker with regards to this rodbuilding addiction and my eyes are consequently becoming more and more critical of my own work??? It could well be that the handles I did last night are jsut as good or better than the Outcast I did, but I am just being overly critical.

What has ya'lls experience been? Are you able in every case to put the cork tape on with absolutely no seams showing and no "roughness" or small bumps where the seams meet? My concern is that it is bothering me now it will likely bother me more later. Am I being unrealistic in my expectations?

Thank you!

Scott Hunt



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2005 11:50AM by scott hunt.

Scott,
I remember a trick that I saw Doc Ski in one of his videos use on a cork tape grip that I have not tryed but thought that it was clever and It really looked good and would eliminate your problem. What he did was leave a gap of about 1/8" between the laps of cork tape and then after the adhesive on the tape had dryed he wound a cord on the blank in the gaps that he had left. It really dressed up the grip and I don't see why you could not use a cord that was the same color as the wrapping on the rod to really dress it up.
If you already have cork tape on the rod you could take an exacto knife or razor blade and cut out a strip that was about 1/8" wide where the cork tape laps meet and then add the cord.

Scott, just like everything else, everyone has their own way. I use nothing for lubrication on the blank and may only lightly scratch the blank prior to installing the tape. I put the tape on at a 30-45* angle. Once I have the tape started, I will stop and either electrical tape or super glue the base wrap. As I work from the butt toward the tip, I wrap a very little bit at a time. With my thumb on the preceeding wrap, I pull the next wrap up and out, and then bring it in very tight. This eliminates almost all seems. As I work may way up, one hand is always putting pressure on the preceedig wrap. Once I get to my ending point, I again tape or glue. I will then work my hands in the direction I wrapped the tape in a light twisting motion to assure I get full adhesion. You could also use a bench top or table top to roll the blank where the tape is. Not sure if that helps or confuses you, lol. As for the smaller blanks, it's never been an issue for me? It is however, very likely that the more you build, the more critical you are of your work. That's how you get better. If you do mess up, rip it off and try again. A little nail polish remover or alcohol will take the sticky stuff off and then try again.

Thanks Shawn,

I think that I am doing essentiall the same as you, except for the lube of couse. I have been very meticulous, wrapping each turn very slowly and really keeping an eye on the seams. The alcohol lube allows me to keep the seams snugged/twisted up tight, but evaporates real quick, letting the adhesive stick. I have been setting the angle by marking the circumference of the blank at the reel seat on a piece of masking tape wrapped around the blank at the reel seat. I then set the starting angle of the cork tape by cutting an angle that is set by marking the length of the blank circumference (using the same piece of masking tape removed from the blank and then stuck onto the cork tape) from one edge of the cork tape diagonally across to the opposite edge of the cork tape (not sure if I am doing a good job of describing it, but it works great setting the angle of the tape wraps and making the beginning edge butt up against the reel seat perfectly).

You may have answer the question form me though...you said that "This eliminates almost all seems". With the emphasis on "almost", I am assuming this means that there are times when you are not able to get rid of all of them?


Emory,

Thanks for the tip. I think that would look pretty sharp. I really want to be able to do these rods with just smooth cork tape grips. I guess I am really looking for a reality check about what I can really expect to be able to accomplish!!!???

I've been suffering from this rodbuilding addiction for years now and even though my efforts improve with practice, I have never built a rod I was completely satisfied with. There is Always something I want to improve on. If practice makes perfect I need much more. Ralph

If at first you don't succeed, go fishing, then try, try again.

Try the 30 minute epoxy again...put masking tape on the end you start on and no epoxy on the first inch of the blank so the cork will stay put...then epoxy the rest of the blank and wrap with your cork...leave a few extra inches when you cut it off the roll. When you get the tape pretty snug, secure the loose end with masking tape again. With the epoxy as a lube, you can start twisting the tape to get rid of any seams. You will be surprised at how little of the extra tape on the end is left. If there is a seam that is not level, I will roll it down with a wallpaper seam roller. The cork tape with cloth backing takes more effort to install that the cheap stuff with no backing but it is tougher and will hold up for years. Good luck...

Scott,
I think your "problem" is not your problem at all. There are (at least) two qualities of cork tape. The "higher quality" tape (ie:more expensive) conforms more easily and the cork/rubber composition is higher in cork than rubber. All the remainder of the tips above are excellent. I've used both the alcohol and the epoxy "trick" but I use U-40 rod bond rather than the 30 minute epoxy because I feel it's easier to work with (of course that too could be just getting used to using U40 rather than the 30 minute epoxy - a personal preference rather than scientific method at work).

Thanks again to everybody.

Ken,

So I guess you are saying that you have worked with some cork tape that had qualities that only allowed you to get it to "work" as good as I described I could get it to? That would be a huge relief to know because I was striving to really be careful when I was putting the tape on those 3 rods last night, and again, it seemed like the last time it worked much better using the same method. I bet I wrapped and unwrapped nearly a miles worth of cork tape between them. I left them alone and am going to look at them again after I get home from work tonight to see if I can live with it or not. I think I am also gonna get the Outcast down from the racks and take another look at it for comparison.

The other thought that struck me is that I might be making to much over it because it seems like that the cork tape always ends up getting "beat up" looking pretty quick under the wear and tear of fishing, temperature fluctuations, going into and out of rod holders, etc.

Just out of curiousity, how can I tell when I buy the cork tape next time which one to get if I want to get the "better" kind. I have only ordered from Mudhole and Reels and Eels so far.


Thank you!

Scott Hunt



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2005 03:47PM by scott hunt.

Instead of alcohol, I spray the blank with WD-40. Gives you a slick surface to work with and still evaporates in time.

Clyde,

Are you always able to get ALL of the seams to COMPLETELY disappear and the final surface to be totally smooth ( to the touch when you run your hand over it)? I still can figure what the deal is because I was constantly keeping the area directly under the part of the cork tape that I was wrapping "wetted" (ie constantly wiping a generous dose of alcohol as a wrapped) enough so that the cork tape was sliding as needed. Just couldn't get some small lengths of the the seam to "disappear" and the finished wrap feels rough at the seams.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2005 04:30PM by scott hunt.

========================= From/to Scott Above =========================

So I guess you are saying that you have worked with some cork tape that had qualities that only allowed you to get it to "work" as good as I described I could get it to?

=====================================================================

That is exactly what I'm saying. I got a 100' roll of "economy" cork from a supplier (who is NOT a sponsor) several years ago
(when they were a sponsor). It was really diffcult to work with. I stumbled across it while I was redoing the shop and tossed it
right in the trash.

I am still using the alcohol as lube for installing cork tape with no problems, no cleanup afterwards, and you can take as much time as needed, even unwind the cork tape as needed to correct gapping or what-have-you. What I really like about using this method is NO CLEANUP.

To reduce the raised seams avoid pulling too much tension onto the cork tape. I pretty much lay it flat onto the rod and push or press it against the preceding wrap - butted up firmly against it but not too tight. If you wind up with a raised seam (it sometimes happens to me too) use a short peice of rod blank, dowl, or even the roound shank of a screwdriver, to press the seam down flat.

Lou

Thought about Ken's suggestion and conviced myself that the tape I am dealing with is not the lower budget stuff and that the problem must be user error.

This was bothering me as soon as I finished installing the cork tape night before last that I knew I wasn't going to be able to live with it. The great news is that I went home last night and figured out my problem! It was the alcohol, or at least the way I was using it.

As described above, last time I installed the cork tape I used just regular rubbing alcohol and it worked great. I "verified" this yesterday when I got home...looked at the Outcast heaver I made (using the rubbing alcohol as lube) and none of the seams were visible. The 3 rods I did night before last (I used denatured alcohol instead for these) didn't compare to it.

I had a brainstrorm last night (rare for me)....noticed when I was using the denatured alcohol on the 3 rods that I had to keep sponging it on the blank so there was enough of it to act as a lube because it was evaporating so fast. Untaped 2 of the 3 rods and redid the cork tape wraps with rubbing alcohol this time instead or the denatured and it worked like a charm. The rubbing alcohol stays wet on the blank much longer, therefore acts as the lube much longer and better. Lou, I agree with you about the mess thing. I found I was able to put on as much of the rubbing alcohol as needed to get the cork tape to slide together, without having to worry about any mess at all.

Thanks to everybody for all of the great suggestions.

Thank you!

Scott Hunt



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2005 01:15PM by scott hunt.

Doug and Ken, I am by no means questioning your methods, but have to ask, why epoxy? Have you attempted to remove the tape on a rod and replace it after epoxying it? I am by no means telling you are wrong, but fish the surf hardcore, and tape just doesn't last! It eventually gets worn down, dry rots, etc... and needs to be replaced. I would imagine that having to cut the original tape off that had been epoxied is a major chore? Sure, if OD on the grip wasn't a factor you could simply put another layer over top, or even put shrink tube over it. However, if you or the customer just wanted the look and feel of tape, what do you do? I am simply curious what brought you to use epoxy?

could someone explain the application of epoxy or achohol in regard to putting on cork tape handle's i've been putting on cork tape handle's for year's never heard of this is there any benefit of using epoxy or achohol? curious, I've alway's made a test wrap first before peeling paper off the cork tape i tape the end i start on continue down the blank to the end i'll leave a couple of inches extra then cut it off the roll of tape. Then go back and put on your handle i tend to wrap the cork tape as close as possible so if you ran your hand down the blank you would feel a little ridge when done i'll roll the blank on a flat surface back and forth with some pressure on the handle seems to work out pretty good for me.The seams come out tight. But i'm very curious about using epoxy or achohol could someone explain the benefit's on doing so.


Thank's Ken

Shawn,

I used the epoxy method on the first one I did, a little over a year ago. It is one of the ones I am redoing right now. I used just enough epoxy to act as a lube and make the blank slick. It was definitely harder/more time consuming to get the epoxy/adhesive junk off of the handle one I peeled the cork tape off. The cork tape did however peel off ok, it was just the junk that remained that required some work to get off. I just used a 3M pad and alcohol. That being said, I agree with Lou, and what I think you are suggesting, why not use the alcohol (or other "non-glue" like Clyde's suggested WD40) instead? As you can tell from the posts above, I have been fooling around with the cork tape handles on three rods for the last week using the alcohol lube method, unwrapping and rewrapping to get it right. Using the alcohol, there is NO mess to clean up and best I can tell there is much less to clean off of the blank handle if you decide to replace the handle. Definitely easier to me/less effort than the epoxy method.

Again, I think that the epoxy and alcohol methods likely work the same with regards to how they lube the blank and allow you to install that cork tape, the epoxy method just requires more cleanup effort when you install it and when/if you replace it.

Ken,

The alcohol, epoxy, WD40, etc. are just used on the blank handle to act as a lubricant to allow you to slide the cork tape seams tight up against each other (so they disappear) when you are installing the tape. For me this works a lot better than doing it "dry" like you describe.

Scott Hunt

Thank you!

Scott Hunt



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2005 09:03AM by scott hunt.

Scott, I got ya. Practice makes perfect! I install my tape like Ken, and will usually wrap the tape up the blank with the backing on and go beyond my end point a few turns. Then I cut it off the main roll to make it easier to work with. I install mine dry, and have to manipulate the tape as I install it to get a seemless grip. I get the impression that the alcohol allows you to put it close to the preceeding wrap and push it down tight? I would be slightly concerned that might affect the longevity of the adhesive, but I don't know first hand. I'ld be curious to hear if that is or is not the case. Once I get the tape wrapped up the blank, I put a straight line of low stick masking tape so that I can cut it on the top edge of the tape. Most times, when I can, I will cut the tape edge at a 45* angle so that reel seat will slip up over the edge. This allows me to epoxy the reel seat to sit at the edge and don't need to use glue, thread, or otherwise to keep the tape from unrolling. The masking tape is also in place for easy clean up of epoxy. Good luck and do what works for you!

Shawn,

Your right on regarding the alcohol. Once you get the tape seam where you think it is meeting up good, keeping the area under the tape wetted with alcohol allows you to push/twist the seamstogether tight. I am rather aggrivated at the way this has gone for me on the 3 rods I am working with right now. I got the seams touching (invisible) but for some reason, cannot get rid of the ridge some places where the seams meet. I have gone round and round in my head about it, redone it on these rod ad nauseum, etc. I am about convinced after talking to some folks that are a lot more experience at building surf rods than me that sometimes you just cannot get it to work perfect.

Your point is well taken though about cork tape wearing out. I got out of surf fishing for a while. When I came back (to my senses!), cork tape was the deal. I like feel and look of it, but not the idea of replacing it relatively often. Haven't used the shrink tube/quick grip yet. Started a post asking about it after I read yours to see what other folks think about it. May try it next time. I think my biggest problem is that I just build enough rods to be dangerous and sometimes experience frustration when I see some of the works of art here and can't do it myself! I'm just really impatient and have to remember that most of the folks here have a whole lot more experience that I ever will!

Take care,

Scott Hunt

Thank you!

Scott Hunt