Guys:

I've dug through the archives here and learned that lots of folks like the Fuji TI SIC guides on their flyrods. I've got a Gatti FRC 3 wt blank to build up, and would like folks' opinions:

Some have posted that SIC guides are more appropriate for heavier (4wt+) rods- would I expect the effect of slightly heavier SICs on my 3wt 9'er to be that noticable? Do Ti SIC guides weigh much more than SF wire guides?

Does using SICs mean I need to playaround with Guide spacing much (versus the mfr recommendation)? I've only built a couple of flyrods so far, and I'd hate to screw up this one by using the wrong guide spacing, sizes, qty, guide height (concepts versus older/taller style). The mfr recommends standard sized guides, 4X #1s, 2X #2s, 3X #3s, 1X#4 and a #10 stripper. How would I convert this into Fuji Ti Sic guides sizes- do I need to go as incrementally- it seems folks run small dia guides farther down the blank?

Anybody out there actually have experience with my blank and able to provide feedback on guide selection?

So as you see, I've a good number of questions at this point- I know I could go with SF wire guides, but I'm out to learn too and make the best rod I can- I'd just like to avoid learning by my own mistakes, and I'd value the opinions you folks could share. Also, I'm not, by any means, dead set on going with SICs, I've considered recoils, and various SF wire guides as well- I'd just like a slick guide who's weight doesn't hurt my rods performance in a very noticable way. Opinions? Suggestions?

TIA,

Mark

Haven't built on that blank, but I would go with the titanium frame SICs. A 3 weight is about the breakeven point for the extra weight over the RECs. 10-8-7-6s [all single foots] to tip. Place a guide on every ferrule and static distribution of rest.

I second what Don suggests. Go with the titanium/SICs. They're fantastic! Personally, I would use all 6s, then a stripping guide (or two stripping guides 4" apart) that's an 8. I know that seems awfully small, but my test-casting consistently tells me that sz. 8 strippers perform just as well as 10s or 12s. But, you should definitely test it for yourself.

Mark, just my opinion,but I'd build anything 4 weight or under as light as possible - in other words single foot Tich's, or better still single foot REC Recoils. That way you compromise the responsiveness/crispness of your blank as little as possible. I'm unconvinced by the friction 'advantages' of ceramics in light trout rods (exactly how far does anyone want to cast a 3 weight anyway?) I suspect most fly fishers would be better off cleaning their fly lines thoroughly after each outing rather than spending three times as much on their guides. I've yet to wear out a decent set of Tich's on any trout rod, so the longevity argument doesn't convince me either.
Just one anecdote on the weight side which tipped the scales for me a few years ago: I built a 5 weight Gatti FR3PA using single foot Tich's and convinced myself it would cast 'better' with ceramics. I replaced all those guides except the stripper with Alconites down to #6 and I couldn't believe the difference - the rod was quite noticeably less responsive/crisp as a result of that very slight increase in weight. I'm an experienced caster, so it was not a case of imagination - besides, I wanted the change to work and was disappointed with the results. The rod still cast well, but felt 'weighed down'. OK, Alconites aren't titanium sics, but the latter cost heaps and aren't the lightest option. I have an 8 foot 3 weight FRC and would build the blank again using either single foot Tich's, or REC Recoils. Jim

Thanks for your input Jim. I am not particularly sensitive to changes in guides. I did switch out RECs for ceramics on my D.C. 1 weight, but I confess not to have noticed any difference in the cast. One of the guys builds with RECs on the upper section and then switches to ceramics. Tom K. - what do your machined cast rods tell you?

The advantage of using good ceramic rings is not about casting distance - in fact there is very little friction on the rings during a cast. But good ceramic guides offer a host of advantages which, when added together, make them an excellent choice for any rod weight. They do cost considerably more, however, so you have to weigh that against the use you intend to get out of the rod.

................

Well, so far, you guys have at least made me feel better about not being able to make up my mind! Seriously, thanks for the input so far.

I really wrestle with the fact it's a 9' blank- it won't be the lightest rod in the world as a result, but it seems small amounts of extra mass out toward to tip act on a longer lever arm, so....

Anybody know off the top of their heads how much extra mass, even in ballpark we're talking here? A SF ti guide versus a Ti Fuji concept. Twice as heavy? 20% more? I guess I don't know where my personal break point is for ruling 'em in, but I know if they're twice as heavy I'd probably rule them out;-)

Another question- how do folks like recoil guides? I've got a buddy who in casual conversation mentioned he was underwhelmed by them, and that's as much as I know.

Thanks again for the great discussion and help guys.

Mark

Mark, I have a frc 8 1/2 3wt built by Christian Brink with rec recoils. I like the recoils very much. I'm not crazy about look of the tip tops (the ring is titanium and the sleeve is aluminum).

Christian Brink builds many custom gatti rods and has done extensive testing with them. If he dosen't reply to this post, email him and I'm sure he'd be glad to share his opinion and experience with you.

I also have a frhp 8/1/2 4wt. Best rod I've ever fished with by far. Did you see the new gatti FRLW 2wts? Lightest rods in production I hear. I'll be building one soon I think.

Tony

Mark. The REC light wire single foot recoils are really light. I love them, particularly because the foot is a little long, which allows them to blend into the blank (a short foot looks chunky on the tip section). The tip tops do look a little strange, but I use them anyway. I would use a titanium ceramic, probably a single foot # 10, for the stripper. I don't have a titanium SIC 6 available for weight comparision, but I am sure it is twice as heavy. I think you get the big picture. The question is that break point.