This is a real old problem, I'm sure, but I am a new builder, so here goes...

I thought I was a bit anal about equal measurements, but the first layer stayed tacky. Now I'm trying to finish wraps over tacky finish. Second layer -- and I was definately anal about equal parts in the epoxy -- still tacky (and the wraps are growing and turning into egg shapes!). What to do...??I am wondering if I should put a bit more hardener than resin in the mix if I am going over a tacky finish. What is the trick?

thanks--
Dove

p.s. another mystery for me...the first layer of epoxy dried hard and perfect on some of the guides and others stayed tacky...???

Dove,
If you are really sure you were careful about the measurements then I would think that you didnt mix it enough. When your mixing and you've think you've mixed enough, mix some more and then more to be sure. Speaking from experience here....
How are you measuring your finish? I use syringes from Flex Coat and never had a problem. Also Flex Coat and i'm sure others recommend mixing at least 2 cc of each part. If you measure less your margin for error is a whole lot smaller. Finish is cheap considering all the work your having to do now to fix the problem.
Hope this helps,
Noel

Thanks Noel--

I think I'm mixing enough epoxy as I've got several dried cups 1/4 full of hardened (some tacky!) epoxy on my bench...but I will try mixing a bit longer.
Any extra ideas on putting epoxy over tacky finish...?

Dove

Dove, Room temperature plays a big role on curing time, especially in winter. I've had to endure slow curing finishes, even as recent as over the Christmas holiday. I usually leave the wrap alone for a couple of days, testing the cure by checking the remaining finish left in the cup or on my foil-lined mini bake pan. Sometimes it will take 3 to 5 days to completely cure.
Any longer than that, I start looking at my measuring and mixing process. I use a variety of finishes and both types of Flex-Coat have been affected.
As Noel says, mixing more at one time lessens the margin of error (or is it increase the margin of error?) In any case the more you mix, the less likely of a chance of an improperly-mixed finish.
Make sure you change mixing direction and include several passes of scraping the sides of the cup as part of the mixing as well. I stir in both directions and scrape in both directions (not at once), for a total of 2 -4 minutes, depending on my paranoia, and if I maintained a proper count. Side scraping is an important step, because swipes of pure hardener or resin seem to find their way above the bottom and all around the sides, preventing you from attaining a 1:1 mix. Scraping the sides pulls the hardener or resin back into the bottom of the cup.
If the finish on the wrap has footballed, then it is a forgone conclusion that you have a lot of buildup. At that point I would remove the offending finish and wrap, and then rewrap the guide.
But that is me, and I don't mind too much if I have a few semi-finished rods around when fishing season starts. I seem to get 'em done quicker.
Do a search on mixing finishes on this site. You will find a "plethora" of assistance.

Patrick Vernacchio

PS. Improper mixing is usually the culprit when you have a combination of cured wraps and tacky wraps. That is why I think the side scraping is so important.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2005 04:01AM by Patrick Vernacchio.

Also dump the finish out onto foil when working.This will increase pot time and also prevent you from getting any undermixed hardner or resin that is on the side of the cup onto the rod.Most times when people use the cup they run the brush along the inside of the cup to knock off excess finish and in turn pick up unmixed resin.Putting all the above sugggestions to use should get rid of the problem.Also warm the finish slightly in cold weather .I put the bottles in hot water for 10 mins.This helps get the air out also.

Freddwhy (Rapt-Ryte)

Hi Dove,

1. MIx a min. of 3cc of both resin & hardner.

2. Thoughly mix - [www.flexcoat.com]

3. Pour mixed epoxy onto alum. foil, be sure to scrap the sides of the mixing cup to get all you can out and let sit for 1 to 2 mins. Doing this allows the epoxy to settle down and helps remove bubbles. This is where you can take a drinking straw to blow into the epoxy to help remove bubbles. Don't apply finish from the mixing cup. Yes you can get away with doing it most of the time but by using the alum. foil you have removed another factor of getting a bad epoxy job.

4. Apply epoxy to threads. I use a good Ox hair brush, others a spatula, credit card, etc.

5. Apply epoxy very thin. The football effect is caused by appling too much eppoxy.


I guess I should have asked what epoxy finish are you using? How are you measuring it?

If your in a situation where you have football looking wraps you can live with it or remove old epoxy and start over. I think we all have had epoxy problems. It's kind of like bad checks, it's really human error and not product error.

The single item to mixing epoxy correctly was building an epoxy mixing machine. I have not had a bad batch of epoxy since using a mixer. Hope this helps.


Hank
On The Rocks Fishing
Wells, ME.

THANKS TO YOU ALL...I really appreciate the time and suggestions you've offered. I feel confident that these tips will solve my problems. Thanks again guys!

Dove

p.s. I've been a little panicked because my problem has been on two new 4 piece fly rods I'm building to take with me to New Zealand and wanted to have new ones I did myself...just thought I'd give you something to dream about...I have been for a long time myself!

If the wraps are footballed, you don't have to completely take out the wraps and redo everthing. Let everything completely harden. After that take a very sharp exacto and start shaving the wraps back to level. Just be careful over the guidefeet and such, if you graze the threads it will have to be redone. I have never known what caused this, but if you get into the threads it will produce a lighter colored spot and reapplication of finish WILL NOT make it go away. I am very particular about the shape of the finish on my wraps and when first starting out......had to redo alot of them.