All right. Thought I had this rod perfect. Glued the tip on the rod, attached the guides with surgical tube, casted well. Seemed to static deflect well. Rod was a cheap Cabelas IM7 blank. Used the Fuji concept guides and as close to the Kirkman Guide Concept as I could with the guides I bought.

Caught plenty of sheepshead on the rod, rod was rated for 4-8lb. I fished 20lb powerpro because the sheepies like to go around pilings, but the blank was light enough to feel the sensitive bites. Caught black drum on it to 10 lbs, everything seemed fine. Then I hooked a monster black drum, To keep from breaking the rod, but keeping pressure on the fish, I had the rod pointed at the fish (he was taking me around the pilings and I didn't want the rod to snap with all the drag I had put on him). I noticed that with tension on the line, the rod pointed straight at the fish, the rod bent into a strange S. In other words, the tip was straight, but the bottom part of the rod was bending in an arch. I noticed the same thing when snagged and pointing the rod at the snag and gripping the spool to break the line, the tip is straight, but the butt end of the rod is bent. It has to be something with the size of the guides or something, it sure doesn't seem right. Anyone know what I'm talking about or what I did wrong?? My stripper is a size 25 with a size 2000 Shimano spinning reel.

Phil

Hmmm. Draw me a picture: What's the shape of the bend (you said an "S", then you said an "arch", not the same). And in which direction is the bend or bends? Up, down, sideways?

Phil,
I am familiar with the blank that you used. Those are good cheap blanks if you use a line range for which the rod is rated. Sheephead are difficult to land especially when they turn sideways. You may be pointing the rod at the fish but I believe the line is touching the side of the guides during the fight causing your rod to torque or the strain on your reel can do that too. By using 20 lb. Powerpro and a heavy fish a lot of energy is stored in your rod and something has got give.

I have a friend that wanted me to build him a cheap two-piece casting rod to carry as a spare on his fishing trips. He wanted a size 16 as his stripper guide. On a guided trip in Louisiana the guide puts him on a large school of reds. My friend decides to try the spare rod but notices that the rod twists with a large fish on. When he came back I reworked his rod by using Fuji concept guides starting with a size 12.
He likes the rod and since has not had the torquing problem. The rod blank is IM7 that he bought from Cabela's.

In closing, I think you are overstressing that rod that was not designed to handle 20 lb. line or a heavy fish. Let's hear more input from other rod builders.

Cheers, Ellis

Blank is rated for 4-8 LB line -- you are using 20LB??? Blank is toooo light

Okay, a couple of points. First of all, you can't use the New Guide Concept properly by trying to adapt it to guides you've "already bought." You have to adapt and buy the guides that will conform to the system. But this may or may not be your problem.

The greatest amount of power in the rod is down low in the butt area. If you point the rod at the fish, and apply pressure the mid and butt area (which is the correct way to apply maximum pressure) the tip should indeed straighten out and any flex should be in the mid and butt areas.

If you wanted to have someone photograph the rod under load and then post it on the photo page here, we could likely give you a better answer as to whether or not anything you've got there is a problem or whether it's completely normal.

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But it also sounds like the rod being used is way to light for the fish being pulled in.

Tom sounds on the mark. I have a similar rod now (although mine is 3 pce with a plug in handle). Every so often I hit a catfish and have to go through that routine. What you are noticing is normal: a nearly straight tip and a bent butt section. You can feel the bend in the handle!!!

20 lb braid on a 4-8 rod is really overlining. You will never be able to use the rod to exert the kinda strain that makes it a pop or stop situation (the line that is). And you should NEVER use the rod to pull free from snags. With that line you'll end up snapping your butt section in two. 20 lb braid breaks at close to 26 lbs. I use 8 lb Stren SB, and that breaks at around 10-12 lbs.

With braid, you have to fish with your drag set to your rod. I set mine to give line just before I get to that extreme butt section bend. If a fish takes you past there, a little extra drag (palm/thumb/finger) should persuade him otherwise, or you are in trouble (undergunned).

Phil,
I can think of only one way that the rod could bend into an S shape as you describe and that is if the line is applying force on the guides in two different directions. I will bet a nickel that if you look closely you will see that the line is riding at the top of one or more guides and on the bottom of one or more guides in a different section of the rod. In other words the way the line is going through the guides it is pushing up on the rod in one section of the rod and down on the rod in another section.

Hi guys. Thanks for your thoughts on this. This is one of those hard to describe situations. Here's my thoughts/opinions (may be wrong):

I always figured the rod doesn't know what pound test line the reel has. I use the same amount of drag as I normally would if I were fishing 8lb mono. The line has the same diameter, just holds up a lot better when I hit that oyster or barnacle. That is, until the fish in question which must have been a huge drum proceeded to spank me, well over 20lbs, because I've landed 10lbers with no problem on these same rods. (Lots of fun tho). I've landed them to 38lbs, but on heavier tackle.

Rod has a great action and a lot of fun with the sheepies, doubles as a good rod for throwing 1/16 ounce jigs for seatrout on the flats. Wish it was a bit faster actioned tho.

The S I was talking about (maybe better described as a slight wave) only occured when the rod was pointed at the fish or snag. (I'm not dumb enough to use the rod to try to break the line, I always point the rod at the snag so the line is coming directly off the reel without putting pressure on the rod).

After reading your replies, I tested the rod at home. I think that the tip on this thing is so soft, that it pulls out straight as you guys mentioned, and even though I thought I was holding the rod straight, it must have had a slight bend in it to give it the slight wave shape between the butt and midsection. Which leaves me with two last questions: is a size 25 fuji adequate for a size 2000/2500 spinning reel, and does the fact I wrapped this blank with a super thin holographic mylar from Japan and Permaglossed it make it slower and softer in action?

I uploaded a pic of the rods and fish. Thanks again for your inputs!

Emory brings up another very likely scenario and you should be advised that this can easily be caused by buying a set of guides that do not allow a straight line path. This is exactly what a proper New Guide Concept System set up prevents.

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Emory is right. If I pull up slightly on the rod, the line hits all the guides in the same spot and my static deflection looked fine. From the center of the reel as I originally set it up, the line seems to travel through the center of the rear guides fine. I just looked again, and when I pull perfectly straight on something (and doesn't have to be very hard), the line hits the top of the tip guides and the bottom of the rear guides, and vice versa, depending on the location of the bail, and the rod is slow actioned, so it is being bent into a wave shape.

With no tension, the line seems to just barely hit or touch the sides of the guides.

Is this a common problem or am I taking something out of proportion that's no much of a big deal? It just doesn't seem right and I don't want to continue to build stuff that isn't right.

Phil. Ditto on overlining. I would much prefer an 8 lb. line with a short section of shock tippet for your application. When you set up your guides lay the rod flat and run a fly line (easy to see) from the tip top to the middle of the reel spool, apply a light tension, and see if the line runs through the middle of the guides.

With seat handle and reel on, I take the spool off and use the shaft that holds the spool as the center. Line that up with the table edge, then just follow it though the guides, change as needed

You can't soften an "action," but you soften or reduce rod power. But the type thread you used to wrap it with isn't going to do that. Unless your guides are extremely large and heavy, they won't cause any significant drop their either.

With the line taut, it should follow a straight path from the butt guide to the intersect guide, just touching the ring on each guide. From there it shold move straight to the tip.

Sight down through the butt guide toward the intersect guide and tell me what you see - a series of circles each perfectly framed by the preceeding one (like an archery target)? Or do you notice that when you frame one another one is then out of line - being a bit high or a bit low.

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Which blank is it? I've built a super flats spinner on the 2 pce, 2-8 rated blank. The action is a little quicker than mod-fast. Any slower than moderate i find just doesn't get down to the beef quickly enough to turn stubborn fish.

By no means did i intend to infer stupidity in responding to your description of pulling from a snag. With braid I never use the rod at all. I wrap a few turns of line around my lip gaff handle and pull with that. Especially with a slower rod like you describe.

With the tip straight the line naturally doesn't pull in contact with the ring as per normal lighter load. It'll be "floating" about within the ring, and a slight change in direction can cause the tip to move about and let the line touch different areas.