Hello

I don't know if anyone has come across this problem. When I'm using my 5-minute epoxy from flex coat it has a really strong smell, that of
rotten eggs. Is this normal or is this a bad batch. I also have the regular epoxy and do not have this problem with it.

Thanks
Fernando

Mine stinks so bad, I store the bottles in a zip lok bag so I don't have to put up with it in my small rod room.

Putter

what is 5 minute epoxy ever used for except maybe emergency repair in the field? just wondering.... (i'm new at rodbuilding and only use flex coat epoxy for thread wraps, never an epoxy for glueing together parts)


eric
fresno, ca.

5 min epoxy should only be used for no stress gluing, such as tip tops.

isn't using a glue stick or tip top adhesive (flex coat?) coupled with some accent thread and thread epoxy enough?

i just hear so many problems using fast setting epoxy in assembling components that i'm considering a personal campaign advocating the elimination of fast setting epoxy for assembly of rods except maybe for in-the-field repair. ;-)


eric (still learning)
fresno, ca.

Eric,
I have been using 5 minute epoxy on cork and reel seats for many years and have not had problems with it.
What problems are you referring to?
I will concede that it does stink though.

I though using 5 minute epoxy for gluing tip tops was a no no, that something along the line of hot melt sticks like the old ferrule cement(similar to the guide foot adhesive) was the more acceptable because it could be removed more readily . . . ?

I think the reaction between the resin and hardner often releases aromatic sulfur which is what you are smelling. Very common with many 5 minute epoxies.

Eric,
In your post you mentioned that you never use epoxy for glueing components together. If not epoxy, what do you use for assembly?? I think you might have some confusion over the term epoxy. Although thread finish may be an epoxy, it's actually a casting resin and NOT an adhesive. 5-minute epoxy is a quick set epoxy adhesive. It has it's uses and is a pretty effective adhesive. It's downside is it's quick setting time, which doesn't give you any leeway for errors or adjustments. If you put a reel seat or grip on with it and 10 minutes later you notice that it isn't on right or is the wrong one (we've all done it), you've got a problem. If you use Rod Bond or any slow setting epoxy, you've got hours to correct any problems.

The main thing that I use 5-minute epoxy for is building epoxy winding checks (ramps) from the blank to the grip, putting but caps on and for attaching tips. I'm sure others use it for additional things

Yes, a Flex Coat glue stick is sufficient. I just prefer to use 5-minute epoxy instead. The tip can be removed with a little heat.

Mike
Mike

EMORY, the problems i referenced are not mine, but what i recall reading about on this board. seems i recall many people post how they have had problems with fast drying epoxy setting too fast and things have shifted out of place. it seems the more experienced suggest never to use fast-setting epoxy, that rod bond is designed for building rods with qualities like flexibility and a long cure time JUST IN CASE things shift during the dry period. i use rod bond, am currently on fly rods number 3 and 4 and have not had any problems except for slightly sloppy cleanup practices (which i'm working on ;-)

MIKE, yeah, i realize that epoxy can refer to two different products. the first, thread wrap epoxy (say, flex coat's high build, which is what i use right now) and the second epoxy for gluing pieces together (i had something made by 3M i think, a twin tubed contraption which when the plunger was depressed together, served up two gooey mixtures which when stirred together, resulted in a very strong glue). so i don't think there's any confusion for me on that point. maybe i'm wrong?

everybody will have experiences to draw from and end up using whichever products work best for them in their rod building. we (hopefully) learn from mistakes and stick with what works.

i have heard/read enough problems from others using fast setting epoxy that i figure there's no draw for me to use it when i have other products which have built-in safety guards like long dry times. i hadn't considered using fast setting epoxy to create tapered winding checks although i like that look. with my first rod, i built up a foundation with thread and used standard flex coat high build for the long taper, applying two coats. perhaps a fast epoxy would be better? i don't know, i'll try it sometime. i am meticulous to a fault sometimes and usually take great care but there's too much of a chance in making mistakes for me. i AM a beginner and that could be the problem. i can just imagine assembling everything JUST SO, then set it down and wander off. i might come back, inspect, but then upon setting it down again, something slips or moves and i don't see it until it's too late.

what i think is that many beginners use fast drying epoxy when at this early period in learning the craft, they perhaps should use something with slower curing times. when they post their problem here as i aid, they finally try rod bond and relate that it works great. maybe u40 needs to market themselves better. maybe experienced rod builders who like rod bond should spread the word with religious fervor. maybe whomever is telling beginners to use fast drying epoxy to glue up components should be shot? JUST KIDDING! in general, as experience grows, there may be less need for built-in safe guards like long dry times.

PURE speculation of course, just my take, which is constantly evolving. :-) for now, rod bond works great for me while assembling the basic components of a fly rod, with a hot glue stick slightly melted for the tip top. by the way, i don't use any glue for installing the winding check, relying on thread epoxy to hold it in place. these are things i've gathered from this board and thank everyone for the help. so far, i have not had any monumental disasters. yet ;-)

eric
fresno, ca.

Can't speak for the smell. I don't have a sense of smell.

Eric, fast set epoxies do have their purpose. With a deadline to meet, you may not always have 24 hours to let a reel seat assembly dry. And the faster an epoxy sets up, the less chance there is for the parts to move. With rod bond, you have a chance to come back and move stuff after a couple of hours. Some guys get everything aligned right the first time and need it done NOW, so quick set is the thing to go to.

As Mike said, I don't like using the term epoxy when talking about finish. Too many new builders out there that can misinterpret the term epoxy (when talking about finish) with say Flex Coat Rodbuilding Epoxy, which is an adhesive.

no sense of smell mick? boy, after running around all day today, i bet most people around me wished they didn't have a sense of smell!! ;-)

ok, i now see where a quick drying epoxy can be used to hasten production. in my case, i usually don't work on a rod until evening time and once i set something up, i WELCOME the chance to put the project aside and hit the sack for some sleep, which usually arrives past midnight. and so goes the hobby approach. fulltime rodbuilders have different needs. thanks for reminding me.

ok then, maybe my personal campaign for 2005 will be to differentiate the terms between thread finishes (like flex coat's high build, LS supreme, etc) and traditional glue-style epoxy. who's with me on this? can i get a witness?????? let's spread the word!!!!!!! :-)

happy new year everyone.

eric
fresno, ca.

Amen, Eric Zamora - Not all Thread finishes are epoxies, and not all epoxies are thread finishes. In rod-building, some epoxies are thread finishes, and some epoxies are adhesives for components. The more consistently we call it thread "finish", rather than "epoxy", the more likely we are to have fewer new-guys posting the classic beginner's error:

QUESTION: "I mounted my reel seat and my tip-top with my (FC) epoxy. After just a few trips, both of them are coming loose: WHAT HAPPENED ??"
ANSWER: The WRONG EPOXY was used. You used the THREAD FINISH, which is a non-adhering CASTING RESIN. This application needed the ADHESIVE EPOXY to hold the parts together. (Live & Learn !) ... [-Cliff Hall-].

amen bruddah cliff! maybe this could be added to the rodbuilding FAQ? somehow differentiating between adhesives used for assembling of components and the finish??? this would only help those beginners who find this web site and read the FAQ thoroughly though.

eric
fresno, ca.

Yes Fernando the 5-min epoxys do smell pretty bad. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you know the uses for this quick set epoxy and not chastise you for using it. As a matter of fact, Flex-Coat 5-min epoxy is the only adhesive that I'll use to attach my tip tops.

Jay