I just finished viewing the following url on "putting spinning guides on a fly rod":

[www.outdoors.net] <no space here>
feature.aspx+Forum+FlyFishing+ArticleCode+566+V+N+SearchTerm++curpage+566


I am sold on trying this idea out on a potential new blank to be used for throwing large musky/pike flies on stout leaders on a 9 wt fly blank and also for inshore salt someday. Shootability is critical for reaching out that extra few feet, yet at the same time I worry that the extra weight of some types of some long-armed spinning guides would really slow down the action of the blank a bit too much and increase wind resistance. Do these configured rods make a 'whoooshing' sound with each cast? My moosky flies already have that nuance covered nicely.

I'm leaning toward the purchase of a Dan Craft FT or SigV blank, a St. Croix SCIV or SCV although am open to any suggestions or others experiences as to blank choice, specific spinning guide models and spacing arrangements, especially interested in hearing from those folks who have used the spinning guides on fly blanks. I'm favoring the alconite or Ti alloy framed SiC spinning guides. Thanks for any input you can provide. What an awesome forum!
Mark

The action will not change with the addition of weight (check the FQAs page for the definition of rod "action,") but overall efficiency will.

What you've read is nothing new. But you do not need large spinning guides to get these benefits. At least not if you're sticking with a fly reel and fly line. I assume you're not going to put a spinning reel on the rod.

A set-up like this - 16 - 12 - 10 and then #7 or #8 low frame fly type ceramic guides is all you need. Larger guides will do nothing but undermine the efficiency of the rod resulting in a loss of casting distance.


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Normally the rod casts much quieter with ceramic guides, lines run thru much smoother. The tip most guides are ceramic fly guides not spinning guides. They are much closer to the blank, about the same as a single foot wire guide.

Tom,
thanks for responding.
If I understand what you are saying, I MAY or MAY NOT get more distance using the spinning guides on a fly rod, it would depend on the blank type/action. The one thing that would be for certain is that the rod would feel more sluggish and not as responsive?

Here's the article written by Scott Jenkins on the above topic:



Fly Rod Spinning Guides
From: Scott Jenkins, Mustad Prostaff

Spinning guides on a fly rod, you say? A novel concept, but it won’t work!

Actually, they do work -- and work well. When it comes to keeping a wet line off the rod and increasing your ability to shoot line, spinning guides are the way to go.

Here in Florida, this concept is catching on fast with the inshore/flats saltwater and warmwater fly fishers. Adding spinning guides to a fly rod is not really a new concept. Joy Dunlap one of the foremost rod builders in Florida and the South, has been using them for years. In fact, he won’t build a fly rod any other way. (A note on Joy: He’s 80 years old and has been building fly rods clear back to when they used fiberglass antennas off of battle tanks for blanks.)

So how do you lay out a blank for spinning guides? Here’s the short version of how to get started. The procedure outlined below is for setting up a 9-weight blank. It’s not limited to just a 9-weight, though; with a few minor changes it can work with any size.

To start, you need a blank or an old rod stripped down and ready to go. Also -- it may be unnecessary to say this, but I’ll say it anyhow: Tape or use a fly tying bobbin with 3/0 nylon thread to temporarily locate the guides until you’re absolutely certain you have the spacing right.

The make and cost of guides are limited only by the depth of your pocketbook. However, use only single-foot light spinning guides. The newer single-foot fly guides don’t have enough height from the rod to be effective.

Proper spacing of the first two guides from the reel is the most important part of making this guide system work. The stripping guides are the key to the rod’s ability to shoot line. Just adding another stripper may not work, part of the key to this system is using all spinning guides. The distance to the first guide is determined by your reach or how far up the shaft you grab the line when stripping. The distance to the next guide is four inches. Period. This distance has been fiddled with time and again, and FOUR INCHES is optimum. The two stripper guides are the same size. I used # 20’s on the 9-weight according to the Fuji guide-size chart. The rest of the guides are sized as follows for a 9-weight rod: 2 #16’s, 2 #12’s, 3 #10’s, with a large-loop fly-rod tiptop, for a total of 10 guides.

The spacing for the rest of the guides was obtained from the VFS rod-building Web site. Just work in reverse from the order in which they have the spacing laid out. They do it from the tip instead of the reel end. Remember, the spacing table is only a reference: The actual distances between the guides may change, based on a few simple tests. After you have the guides temporarily in place, you may want to move them again. (That’s why we use tape or thread.)

What kind of tests do you need to perform?

The first is a deflection test to see if the fly line touches the rod at any point on its way to the tip. If it does, you need to adjust the spacing of one or several guides.

Next comes a casting test. Rig up the rod with a reel, line, leader, tippet, and fly (point and barb removed), and try it out. Watch the way the line flows through the guides. Does it balloon or hang up at a given point?

The last test is to see how well it will shoot line. Strip all of your flyline out to the backing, now false cast or double haul until the belly is out beyond the rod tip a total of about 25 or 30 feet. Now make a cast and load the rod as you normally would with about 35 ft. of line out. The rod should shoot at least 40’ if not all the remaining line. All the tests done with this concept were performed with a nine -- weight forward floating line. If you use a different type of fly line the results may vary.

Final checks, are the strippers the correct distance for your reach? Is the rod comfortable in your hands? Are the guides lined up properly? These are all important things to consider before permanently installing the guides.

When everything is right -- meaning it feels good, you are one with the rod, or you consider the rod a natural extension of your arm, and you shoot line farther that ever before-- the hard part is done. Now all that’s left is the fun of deciding the colors and designs for your guide wraps and how you will finish the rod.

Sounds like a lot of work, but it really isn’t -- it only takes about an hour to position the guides. Wraps amd finishing take longer than the fun part And next time the sun comes up and you head for the water, you’ll find the hour was well spent, because now you have a new weapon in your arsenal.
Enjoy!
AUTHOR NOTE:

I would like to thank David Long of the Central Florida Rodcrafters for his expertise and for making me aware of the advantage of spinning guides on a fly rod.

All the materials for this project were obtained from the “Mud Hole” Custom Tackle and Rod Building Supply in Orlando Fla. (www.mudhole.com). Thanks, Tom, for having everything in stock when I needed it.

Okay, after a quick run through, what he's proposing has been done for around 30 years now. Many, many custom rod builders do it this way, sort of.

He's mistaking any ringed ceramic guides as being "spinning" guides. He's probably unaware that a guide is a guide is a guide. Then again, he may be using the term "spinning" guide simply to put his audience on a certain track opposite that of the more usual snake guides most are used to saying.

The thing is, ceramic guides on fly rods are quite common and getting more so every day. It's nothing new, although it's not what you'll see on the majority of fly rods. Properly sized, they won't "weigh" the rod down any more than guides that are too large and too heavy will. If you were to set up a 9' 9-weight fly rod something like this:

SVSG16 • SVSG12 • then as many SG 7's or 8's as required, you'd fine the rod will perform as well or better than if you had used the typical set up of two ceramic stripping guides followed by large snakes guides.

Now if you were to use guides in sizes more closely associated with actual spinning rods - large high frame guides with really large diameter rings, you'd find the rod would become quite sluggish and sloppy due to the extra weight of guides that are far larger than they need to be. However, in the proper context, ceramic guides work perfectly well on a fly rod.

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Personal experience s'il vous plait.

I had to slow down on my fishing/casting due to damage to my port side but just had to fish somewhow.

I spotted my old fly rod, unused for a while during my foray into the world of spiral wraps, hanging on the wall. It had a shooting head on it and that's just what I didn't need. I unloaded it and put new fly line and backing on it and proceded to practice to get my timing back.

I saw a picture of a rod under load fighting a redfish on another forum and at first, thought that it was a New Concept spinning rod but the fly line gave it away. I really liked the big ceramic strippers and the running guides.

I had seen some discussion about using a choke guide on a fly rod on this board and emailed the author of the post and asked him what he was talking about. As usual with this board, he really helped by explaining the choker guide on a fly rod. I had it confused with the line tamer.

Armed with this new knowledge, I stripped the snakes off the old rod and put ceramics on it. I wound up with a 16, 12(both double foots)a 10, single footed as it wound up on the ferrule and looked better. I then put on 3 size 8 and 4 size 7, all single footed, with an 8 tip, making a total of 10 guides. Looking back, I could have used all 8s to the tip, and probably will next time. I tried it both with and without the line tamer and really couldn't see or feel any difference, but that's my opinion, others may differ.

I test casted the rod with the guides taped on and was literally amazed at the difference in casting and distance. I can fish at the distances of the old setup with less strain and pain on the old arms. If I put some oomp into it, I can fish at distances comparable to the old setup with the shooting head.

Sorry about the length of the post but wanted to share.

BTW, if Joy Dunlap tells you he's 80 years old, he's starting to subtract each year instead of adding. He's still making rods and is as feisty as ever.

I really like the ceramics and appreciate the help from the guys on the board. C2

Your thoughtful replies have been a huge help.
thank you. Mark