Sage's tip top recomendation for their XP 8100-4 is an oversized loop size 4.5 and the first set of guides are listed as #1 double foot snakes. I wanted to to upsize the guides because of possible icing in the winter times and decided I would start with #2 Pac Bay Titanium coated single foot guides since I thought one less wrap and epoxy per guide would justify any additional weight in guide upsizing.

What I've noticed now is odd. The oversized tip top measures about 8mm inside diameter and that's about the same as a #6 SF snake guide! My #2 sf guides are 5.7mm inside and #3 guides are 6.2mm inside. Using my powder measure, the #2 sf snakes weigh 1.5 grains, the #3 sf snakes weigh 1.6 grains - a meeger .1 grain more. (I measured Pac Bays TiCh df snakes and they are 1.7 grains for a #2 and 2.7 grains for their #3).

Two questions - does moving up to #3 sf snakes seam reasonable under this situation? And what woudl be the reasoning behind a large loop tip top and smaller guides directly after it? This would be like having a 427 Chevy V-8 with only a 2 barrel carburator!

Tim, give some thought to Fuji BLAG Alconite single foot guides and a Fuji BFAT tip for this rod. Or use a BLAG guide for the tip. A 12 stripper followed by a BLAG 10, 8, & 7's to the tip with maybe a 10 linetamer guide 100 mm. / 4 in. ahead of the stripper should give you what you want in size plus the benefits of ceramics over wire. Ralph

Tim,

You are correct with your analogy. It is easier to think of in terms of ceramics because of the consistent diameter from guide to tip top, but it holds true for wire too. There is no point in having a tip top with a greatly exaggerated diameter if the guide before it are smaller. The smallest point in the line of guides is your constriction.

For that rod, I'd go with #3 wire (if I were using wire) and a L tip top. The XL tip tops are pretty beefy. If icing is a major concern, then just get recoil guides in a #6 all the way to the tip with the XL tip. They will be lighter than the #1 wire and will clean just fine.

Thanks,
Rick

Tim, its an interesting subject, sounds like your going outside your box a little. I build a lot of 6100 and 8100 XP's. I usually run 5 and 4 single foot titanium coated PacBay guides with a 16 stripper and 12 choker. Some guys prefer a 20 stripper, 16 and 12 double foot chokers, then 3 #5 single foot guides, 5 #4 singles. The Sage factory rods are built with double foot snakes... the extra wrap and epoxy on each guide weighs much more than a single foot guide with its single wrap. The minimal weight difference between a size 4 and a size 1 single foot guide won't cause your rod to weigh more than a factory Sage. It will still be lighter than the factory, and will be a pleasure to cast. I haven't used the REC guides yet, but Rick's suggestion on those is sound. It makes no sense to put a large tip on a rod for icing concerns if your previous guides are all so much smaller. If my strippers seem large, its because of shooting large amounts of line long distance. If you want to pick up 60-80 feet of line from the ground or water in front of you, with minimal false casts, the larger stripper doesn't constrict the line down so much, causing less friction, less choking.

If you want to stick with the wire single foots , do yourself a favor and try the Recoils . They are incredibly light and slick , they won't break the bank either. Just my 2 cents . John