Thank you for your comments. But in bass fishing do you really feel rod fatigue fishing for bass with a conventional rod?? I can understand big saltwater fish but for a fish that fights maybe 2 minutes max?? I understand the no torque of the acid wrapped rods but am having a hard time justifying its uses and advantages in bass fishing. The comment about heat on the line with the line touching the blank. Is there that much resistance on the blank for the line to heat up and eventually break?? That one is a new one on me. Is the spiral wrap a more sensative rod than a conventional rod with the same guides and blanks? How about casting ability? and bait projectory. Thanks guys for all your help

Randie

1lb of pressure is all it takes to flip a rod upside down. And you cannot right it with your fingers on the blank. I have also seen bass rods have their tips twisted all the way around past 90 degrees when fish was on the line. To me it makes a difference and the spiral wrapped rods just handle and feel better once you've tried one. I know I won't go back.

Randie,

I was a hard sell on the spiral wrap, until I tryed it. I, too, bass fish more than for any other species. Time length of the battle has nothing to do with it. I throw alot of jig-n-pigs into heavy cover, on 25 lb. line. A lighter line will break, scraping against the laydowns during a fight. With 25 lb. line I can "horse" any fish to the boat. Bear down on the drag and horse an 8 lb. bass to your boat... A conventional, guides on top rod is going to twist. I know, I have done this. You end up fighting the fish with the rod sideways. Best thing I can tell you is, build one and catch some fish on it.

Bill Doherty

Hi,

Last fall I spiral wrapped a 7' composite rod that I would use catching sea bass and porgies in 70' of ocean water using 6 and 8 oz sinkers.

I laid out the guides and wrapped 1 turn of masking tape around the blank to hold the guides in place.

After catching many fish 4 days in a row the guides were still in place. I did not retape or reposition any of them. I fished hard!!

This experience really convinced me and I already understood the advantages of a spiral wrapped rod.

I wrapped a rod having a set of guides on the top of the spine and a 2nd set of guides spiral wrapped. Pink line going thru the top set and green line thru the spiral set. Standing the rod on a vertical spine finder I show and explain what the dynanics are. Most people understand and agree to the benefits BUT are not ready to change.

Capt Neil

Ask a professional fishing guide out on the water for 14 hours a day, or a tournament bass angler spending 200 or more days on the water prefishing and the time 'it counts' at the money days to catch the fisht 'that count' and I can bet they will appreciate the use of lighter or more responsive equipment to reduce fatigue, so yes, I belive the easier handling with a spiral wrapped baitcaster applies to bass fishing as it would to hefty s/w or heavy freshwater situations (consider sturgeon and muskie in this category).

I wouldn't agree that the spiral wrap would have much to do with the rods sensitivity. This is more in conjunction with stiffness to weight and grade of the materials in the blank as well as some modifications at the handle perhaps.

Casting ability, bait presentation, accuracy, distance? These depend on the right way the spiral wrap can be designed more for casting than the older versions were mainly for dropping down the line for downrigging or trolling. It's fascinating just to experiment with different guide configurations and even different types and sizes of guides to get just the right match to blank, line, and reel for verifying that the rod will cast as good or better than a conventional guide on top setup.

As for resistance and line 'heat up' , I won't touch that one. But for torque reduction and tip twisting of the blank, it's almost common sense to visualize that reduction of these forces could prolong the life of the rod at the least.

Guide setup to the particular blank at hand, and the newer ideas for modifications makes the spiral wrap not only for S/W in my opinion.
You'll see more and more of these on the bass tournament scene to be sure.

Rich
Solyrich Custom Rods

Randie,

How much you will notice the casting advantages of the spiral wrap will depend on how you cast.

If you do a lot of 'normal' overhand casting, you won't notice much difference while casting the rod. It will cast just as far, and just as accurately, as the angler is capable of.

If you are like me, and do a lot of underhand/sideways/backhand casts, then the spiral wrap is more efficient and you'll see improved accuracy and less effort for a given distance.

If you put it on a pitching rod, you'll REALLY 'feel' the difference. More accurate, less fatigue (you normally don't notice the torque, but it's there, and when it's gone, BOY can you tell, ESPECIALLY when making 300 to 600 pitches in a tournament).

Better lure control. Bass fishing often requires rod manipulation to 'activate' the lure properly. Topwaters, soft jerkbaits, and hard jerkbaits are the biggies here. With a more stable rod, which is what the spiral wrap does for you, you get 'better' action with less fatigue. You don't have to fight against the rod wanting to 'flip over' while you are also trying to work a spook or a bass assassin.

Then there's the 'sensitivity' issue. A 'stable' rod sits easier in the hand, allowing you to 'feel' easier. This is complicated, but translates to an increase in your ability to feel slight vibrations better. You can feel 'better' the more 'relaxed' your grip is....

By the way, energy transfer on the hookset is better as well. That's just physics, and you can figure it out yourself if you think about it. Use the spiral wrap on a rod for jigs or soft plastics, and you'll get more solid hook ups...

So, yes, I can find a few ways that this type of guide set up will put more fish in your boat.

That presupposes that all other things are equal. It's still the guy who puts in more productive time on the water that catches most of the bass most of the time.......

Good Luck!

I do have two spiral rods and I really like them but I am not sure it is because the way the guides are put on them (ie spiral wrapped). I like them more for the action of the blank. Maybe my wrists and hands are conditioned to using the conventional equipment. I read on another board where I saw a good comment saying that "a spiral will make up for bad fishing form". Bad form meaning those high over the head hooksets and those where the rod but is not in your gut to control the fish. Not to say that anyone has bad form but if you do I feel it will help you. I agree that the spiral won't make the reel flip on you due to its design, but how much pressure does the reel exert on your hand make it go sideways? I tied my line to a tree and with my pinky I moved the reel back to its topward position on my conventional rod with very little effort and with the rod blank bowed fully. I don't think it would even make a 1/4 of a pound atleast on Bass. I did a test tonite on the casting distances also and I didn't see any noticeable difference in casting in any position ie sideways, underhand, overhead etc. Mr. Garbowski, I haven't ever broke a rod in my 30 years of fishing that atleast wasn't my fault (ie car door) I still have some old St Croix and Loomis still doing there thing for me so I am not sure on the blank life expectancy issue. I think alot of the comments made above (and this is my opinion only) is that the differences are so small that they are hard to measure scientifically. Capt Neil in your situation I can definitely see how they can be beneficial fishing in the ocean you never know what size fish you are going to catch. Glad I we can have a great discussion on this issue as we can all learn something.

Randie

I've been fighting the idea since I started building rods. I have read over 90% of the post on this board for the last 3 or 4 months. The spiral thing doesn't seem like it's going to go away. Anyway, I'm finally giving in and building one of the things to experiment with. I've got identical blanks and components and am building one conventional and the other with the spiral. I've got the time and $ to kill so what the heck. I suppose I'll just have to find time to fish and try them out. Good luck on what ever you decide. To each his own, steve

If you watch someone fight a fish with the conventional setup you'll many times see the reel rock back & forth as the handle is turned. With the spiral setup, the reel will remain rock-steady.

I have been building casting rods using the spiral wrap now for a couple of years. In all cases they seem to perform better than the conventionl style. When you add up all the positive attributes, it is hard to understand why anyone wouldn't like it. I usually give a demonstration in my shop of all the dynamices achieved through the spiral wrap. (Do the Don Morton on them), I then let them test cast and even have a few demos for them to try if needed. I have yet to have one customer not want their casting rod built in the spiral fashion. I try and explain that the torque exerted by a normal casting configuration is something that most of us can overcome. But why not design in all the great attributes that make it a little sweeter. I usually ask them if they play golf and have hit a golf ball that when you strike the ball correctly that you felt nothing and the ball's flight path was perfect. It usually doesn't go that way, but we all know what I am talking about. It is the same thing with our custom rods. Why not use all the design characteristics that we can benefit from? I know that at the end of the day's fishing you will feel that the rod is a little sweeter. Maybe another good example I tell my customer is, using a fine custom rod is like buying a musical instrument. You could take five different violins and play them all and one will stand out. That is the one you would pick. This is what we strive to build in our custom rods. We want all the fine details to amount to a noticable difference at the days end. I have been using these types of tactics to educate the fisherman with great success. The spiral wrap will open many doors if you implement this technique to all different types of rods. It has worked for me.

Good Luck,

Bruce young
Landing gear

I agree with Bruce. The spiral wrap alone is not enough to get the best out of a rod. In reality the spiral wrap is designed to provide stability to the rod, or prevent the rod from twisting when loaded or flexed. Most people will notice the difference when they shift to a spiral wrapped rod. For starters, place the rod on a smooth edge, table edge or better a section of PVC pipe and with one hand on the middle of the rod bend the tip up to about 90 degrees. The rod will roll lto a spine, roll it completely around and try to find a spot where the rod "locks in" or is most difficult to turn. With the rod in this position mark the outside of the curve for placement of the tip guides. The spiral wrap will hold the rod in a stable position when retreving and the lock-in position will hold the rod when casting. In other words the rod will flex in the same plane and will not torque or twist on the cast or retreve. I think this is what most people are trying to accomplish. I started using a spiral wrap over 20 years ago and have not used a traditional, guides on the top since. The technique will work on almost any rod using a revolving spool reel from ultra light to heavy salt water bottom rods with the exception of rods with roller guides.

Don Morton

I agree with Bruce and Don. Let the spiral wrap be the START of a great bass rod. First pick a quality - technique specific blank - if you're not sure - ask someone that is. Step away from the norm on the handle. If you do not use a fore-grip in your bass fishing - eliminate it. Try a split grip for casting efficiency and Fuji new concept guides in the spiral configuration.

The difference a rod like this will make depends on you and your level of expertise. Spiral wrapped rods require some explanation - but not as much as you think. Once a good angler fishes a quality spiral wrap - explanations are no longer necessary.

Seeing no one would touch it , let me try. When you over extend a
rod while fiting a large fish with a regular guide setup your line could easly come in contact with the blank so you would most likely need to add a exta guide or two to eliminate that problem , thus adding more weight to the rod (result, less sensitivity) Guides in the tip area placed on the bottom of the blank requires less guides and will not touch the blank. A fast running fish pulling drag across a blank that does not disapate heat like a SIC guide would snap in 3 or 4 seconds. Try this take a piece of 10 or 12 lb. mono., have someone wrap the line around both of there hands with about a foot and half of line between
have them put a good amount tenson on the line now you take a piece of toilet papet inbetween your thumb and finger and pinch on the line rub back and forth quickley and see how long it takes
to break the line from the friction , then take you fingers a rub a rod blank in the same manner and feel the heat. One day it might make the difrence between a true trophy or a broken line

Chuck Herlien

Hi Chuck

Good post.

Yes, many rods don't have enough guides and it is usually a cost or saving money situation. Another reason we build custom rods.

Here is how I do the top end of a sprial wrapped rod.

l static deflect the blank as if I am setting up for guides on top. Then I turn the guides under the blank. This gives me a smooth line transition. Yes, I might use an additional guide or two this way but I like how the line enters and leaves a guide.

I build for the salt water, blanks are heavier, and I don't get as concerned about weight as I would with lighter blanks.

Don't get me wrong, I don't overbuild.

Just another way of doing.

Capt Neil

What are the advantages of the cut away sections of the handle
in back of the reel, if it's for less weight, and cork is very
light, does removing that small amount of weight make a difference, and why?....not doubting, just trying to understand
the theory, thanks

Buzz T.

Thanks guys now I understand......