Hi all,

I have been frustrated that fly rods have hi-tech blank technology but low-tech line guides and placement. The rods’ potentials all seem to be hindered by the guides. Cannot believe what the major manufacturers charge and still use simple wire guides, so I recently bought a book in my effort to rectify this injustice. Coincidentally, I found that this website happens to be run by the author ~ you really should have mentioned this website. The quality of advice found on this site is amazing so thanks to all of you upfront.

I am going to build a 4-piece 9 foot 8wt for general saltwater use. And will be purchasing a Pac Bay rainforest blank and graphite seat, I can’t afford more so I’m stuck with this. I will be using a SA #8 Mastery Bonefish line most of the time but will also run #7 bonefish and SA #9 saltwater taper on occasion. Will this blank be up to it?

I have to order all my parts from USA as they are not available here, so I would like to get the parts right the first time. I am also confused with the tip selection. Let me explain.

I intend to run Fuji components, but have not determined the spacing on this blank:

A BYAG16 (maybe also a tamer) ~ BLAG12 ~ BLAG12 ~ BLAG6 runners all the way ~ BFAT6 tip

I am confused because I have a catalogue that says the BFAT is a 6mm ring but it comes in sizes 4.5-5. Do I go by “size” or “mm”? My runners will be BLAG6, so does that mean I should run a 6mm BFAT? Or should I run an 8mm ring because they have that in a size 6? If that is the case, does that mean that if I run BLAG7 runners I need to use a different tip altogether because the largest size BFAT is an 8mm size 6? And in some cases, does “size” also mean “mm”? Confused? Me too! I just can’t figure it out. If someone can explain this to me, I should be able to figure the transition from any size runner.

Also, anyone have any idea for a BLAG6 what is the diameter of the hole the line will be passing through? (I don’t know if this is called the ID) I have tried a spey rod (not mine) that has ceramic guides with 5mm of space and it casts #789 Rio windcutter like a breeze so I am convinced that small runners is the way to go.

If all goes well, I will have a nice rod in a couple of months, then I will bring a hairdryer to my 7yr old Sage and strip the guides!!!

Regards
Desmond

Hi,

Sorry to add to an already long list of questions, but the above blank in question has a tip size of 5.0, so coming off a BLAG 6 runner, does this mean I should get a tip such as BFAT 6mm ring, at size 5? Does this mean also that if I run BLAG7 runners I should get a BFAT 7mm ring, at size 5?

And lastly, does a 6mm ring mean the diameter of the empty space for the line to run through is 6mm? Does this apply to runners as well i.e. does BLAG6 mean the diameter of the empty space is 6mm?

Thanks ahead
Desmond Ng

For a 6mm ceramic guide, the inside diameter of the metal "ring" that holds the ceramic insert is 6mm - this is also the outside diameter of the ceramic insert. The inside diameter of the ceramic insert will be about 3.5 to 4 mm. Usually the tiptop diameter is the same as the last running guide.

You might want to use larger running guides and tiptop for an 8 weight; maybe 7mm but I've never used ceramics on an 8 wt so I don't really know.

The tiptop size refers to what diameter blank tip the tiptop should fit. Here, 5.0 = 5/64 of an inch.

Desmond,
I, too, would recommend larger runnign guides. I built 2 7wts last winter, both using 7mm running guides. If I had it to do over again I would have gone with 8mm runners. Fuji Alconites are very decent guides, just be sure to take the time to prep them properly.
Best of luck

Desmond, In your first post you said "I am confused because I have a catalogue that says the BFAT is a 6mm ring but it comes in sizes 4.5-5. " It is a 6mm ring. The 4.5 -5 refer to the tip size the guide will fit.

Are you sure you want BYAG16 as stripper?
It is Y framed single foot guide used for spinning.
You better off using BLNAG16.
I have 9' #8 and it runs like this..
BLNAG16, 12
BLAG 8 then BLAG 7 all the way to BFAT7/5.5 Tip.
If your blank has a tip dia of 5, get tiptop with tube size of 5.5. That is BFAT7/5.5.

Desmond, one more thing - if you want to "get the parts right the first time" and the manufacturer's information on the blank says the tip is 5/64 inch, I'd order two tiptops - one 5.0 and one 5.5. Sometimes the blank's tip is a bit bigger than specified (or maybe the tiptop is a bit smaller than specified). Obviously you will not use one of the tiptops, but I think the cost of the tiptop not used will be less than the shipping charge if a second shipment for a correctly-fitting tiptop is made. Or, order from a vendor who will check the fit of the tiptop before shipment.

Hi,

This is exactly why I like this forum. I feel more confident already. I get great advise and alternative suggestions!!! Better figuring out now than after I've finished with the rod and discover that maybe I should have done something different…. like including a reel seat!!

I did not figure the tiptop tube size should be a little bigger than the blank tip diameter, so that's a minor catastrophe adverted!!! Thanks

As for the BYAG16 as a stripper, I wanted to have some additional height for the stripper and figured this would do it. I had initially wanted to run BLAG but I guessed it was too low and maybe not as strong as the BYAG. I realize the BYAG is still a single foot guide but wanted to keep it light. I'm still not sure if it is strong enough though or if I should change to BYAG strippers. Anyone has comments? This is a rainforest blank 4 pc 8 foot #8wt that will run a #8 bonefish taper and on occasion, a #7 and #9 line. I know that this is a moderate, or slower blank and will probably not handle a #9 line as well, but I could be wrong.

I may run the same setup as Wookin (thanx for the specs – I think they’re really sound) but am wondering if I should stick to the single foot BYAG strippers and tamer or if I should run a BLNAG stripper and tamer? The BLNAGs seem to have a lower height (is it too low?)and a lot more weight. Will this weight difference be significant over a BYAG? Can I run a single foot BYAG guide as the stripper? I’d rather a little more weight than having the stripper pop off. But I’m hoping this rod will be light and cast really far so I’m torn between the two and don’t have any rod building experience to decide. I know the rod builders here have the experience and clients with feedback on these questions.

So should I run:

BYAG16 stripper and BYAG16 tamer, BYAG12
BLAG 8 then BLAG 7 all the way to BFAT7/5.5 Tip

OR

BLNAG16 stripper and BNLAG16 tamer, BLNAG12
BLAG 8 then BLAG 7 all the way to BFAT7/5.5 Tip

Or Wookin's setup:

BLNAG16 stripper, 12
BLAG 8 then BLAG 7 all the way to BFAT7/5.5 Tip

(Wookin) I’m sure it’s a sound setup (that I may eventually adopt) but as a new (not yet) builder, I would like to examine all options to benefit from everyone’s experience and better understand the art of rod building and why certain things are done the way they are.

I don’t know if any of you have already done or experimented with this, I’d like to hear if anyone has. I intend to mount the 1st stripper (and maybe also the 2nd) offset a little toward my stripping hand as I figure it would be more efficient in reducing the line’s entry angle and help increase shooting distance.

We almost never strip directly toward the ground when casting or along the blank (unless stripping the fly back and through the fingers holding the rod – it is still to one side of the blank), but always at a slight angle. And we never shoot line off the reel, but off a stack that’s to one side. My line is always stripped to my right and naturally lies in a pile on my right and will shoot from there through my right hand fingers to the stripping guide. I intend to run it so that then the line is taught from the reel to tip, there is no angle in the line, but enough play so there is a smaller angle to the side when casting.

I am a recreational climber (solo with proper gear and paranoid about falling - just to keep me safe) and when rappelling we increase the line angle on climbing ropes when they run through our braking tubes to increase braking pressure. It can get so hot you can burn yourself. You’d be amazed how much difference a 10 degree change in angle makes in stopping your body-weight from sliding!!!

Let me know what you guys/gals think. Thanks a million.

Regards
Desmond

Desmond , I would go with Wookins set up , order 2 of the #12 stripping guides(BNLAG) , then you can tape another one above the 16 stripper to try as a tamer . If you like it , wrap it on , if not take it off , and you are out a few bucks . The suggestion of a little larger running guides(7s) is a goos idea , as you may need the knot clearance . You have been given exelent advice , also the tip top in 2 sizes (5.5,5.0) is a good decision , as I've had the same problems with a top not fitting just right and wished I had gone the next 1/2 size up . You sound like you will be in very good shape.
Have fun , that is what it's all about , good luck , John

Hi all,

Thanks again for the wonderful advise. I think I've figured out (actually you guys did) what I'm gonna do. And I think you guys have given me enough tips on what to look out for so I don't botch this first rod. What I'm sure of is that however it turns out I will have a great time building it and that this will be a first of many.

I think John Dow has summarized nicely most of the contributions. I'm sure I will have more questions on the way and I now know where to get all the right advice.

One more question though. What do you all think about offsetting the stripping guides? Any thoughts?

Regards
Desmond

I personaly don't , though I've read that it does give some advantage to casting/retreve line feed . I don't think it would be of a great advantage , though others might . And what will people think when they ask "why are your guides crooked" LOL ...........John