Finally, we're gonna meet up to test cast 6 of teh same blank with 6 different guide configurations. Expect between 15-20 guys to show up, a few guys will thrown 10 casts with each rod, distances will be recorded and posted on-line in the next couple of days. Will have a BBQ & a Rod Building @#$%& session after we eat. Had planned to go surf fishing beforehand, but here is the maraine forcast:

TODAY
N WINDS 25 TO 30 KT WITH GUSTS TO 40 KT. SEAS 8 TO 11 FT.
LIGHT RAIN ENDING AROUND OR SHORTLY AFTER DAYBREAK.

TONIGHT
N WINDS 25 TO 30 KT WITH GUSTS TO 35 KT...DECREASING TO
20 TO 25 KT LATE. SEAS 6 TO 9 FT.

Gonna be VERY nasty out there. Oh yeah, it's pretty cold out too, mid-30's. With all tht wind, I hope we get this done quickly, lol. I really wish it wasn't so windy, as that might skew some of teh results, but that's why I'm hoping having a few different guys cast each rod - that should balance things out somewaht.

Actually, the temp right now is 34, wit a wind chill of 24. Predicted high is only mid 40's, which ain't bad. Wind chill will keep it around freezing though. Ideal for standing in an open field which recieved about 24 hours of rain while measuriing where a sinker landed and pulling it out of the mud. Over and over again. lol. NExt time we do this in teh summer.

What a Day! You will need more than a bagle and cream cheese to stay warm today. Stay sober so the report will not be skewed in any manner. Wish this coonass could bring you some alligator sauce piquant. I hope you are not test casting around the end of the runway at Laguardia - if you are do not use spyder wire or you may end up in London.

Waiting for the report!

Gon Fishn

Bill - too funny! I do think teh wind will cause some difficulties and skew the numbers a bit. We actually were fortunate enough to have someone who does the Distance Casting competitions coming. Hopefully, these 9' footers will stay in one piece, as tehy were @#$%& off & the proceeds are going to someone from one of the boards who is terminally ill.

Should be fun, unlike Southerners who break out teh sweaters, turtlenecks when it dips into teh 50's, we're used to teh cevere change of temps. Bill, yo do realize my fishing season just STARTED, right? I've gone out 7 times this month already, and am going tomorrow, MOnday & Tuesday. Makes you appreciate those fishless days when yo're wearing shorts, huh? lol.

I guess the results will be interesting but I don't think they'll prove anything. Human error, wind, etcetera will add up to data that can't be considered very valid. So I don't know what is trying to be proven. Whatever it is it can't be. Not with those factors involved.

I look forward to the results Billy. I think the your test will reflect valid obvious differences. An event like this can lead to some interesting observations.

In the downwind direction, in wind like that, I hope you have a good knot tied on teh (In honor of Billy's typing) spool.

Gon Fishn

REsults were interesting to say teh least. When you have 3 or 4 guys casting the same rod over a 4 hour period, and casting other rods - it's OBVIOUS to everyone who was there which rods casted well,a dn which ones did not, regardless of teh conditions. Even without seeing the data on exacty how far they were casting, it was obvious. IT as also a bit surprising, we had one rod touted as a good surf casting set up cast noticeable less with braid than another which people REFUSE to believe work, cast further with MOno.

WIll post results after I transfer teh data to the spreadsheet.

I will do this again in the Spring/Summer when it's a bit warmer. THere were a few things which did not go well, a little disorganizationon my part, but overall it went really, really well. Kind of neat to see 4 different guys cast a 1 oz siner inside a tennis ball 5-7 times within 20 feet of each other - spinning & conventional.

Billy,

Glad you survived the test casting without a trip to the hospital. (nice tip on the tennis ball)

Look forward to reading about the results...

Informal casting by various guys is always fun and interesting. When looking over the results, however, you need to also consider how the rods were set up.

I've had many people tell me the new concept guide system doesn't work very well. Of course, when I saw their rods and how they had set the system up, I found that they didn't actually have the new guide concept system. Using Fuji's spacings and carded guide sets, you can actually lose distance rather than gain any.

Same with cone of flight systems. Some are better than others. It's impossible to generalize a genre of casting systems by any set up that isn't absolutely optimized and correctly done.


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Just got back from a day (Sat.) of surf fishing on LBI. Nasty surf - 8oz. weights just rolled down the beach all day. Cold and windy. 4 guys fishing - NO FISH !!!

Have fun !!!

Rog

I don't know anyone who follows Fuji's specs nor uses carded guide sets. I will say that 2 of the guys who built these rods are professionals who wrap quite a few surf rods, so that's not at all an issue here. TEHy actually wrap more traditional & 40HH rods than anything, and the COnept types of set ups were fairly new to them. Which is what made the results even more interesting.

Informal events like this are alot of fun. I'm glad I went. We had some great casters. Folks that spend alot of time surfishing. Lots of ideas and suggestions were used to make the test casting show some decent results. Sure, there's lots of variables. Keep in mind that there's lots of variables when a builder tests a guide set up in his or her backyard. I'd hate to think that testing a guide configuration is a waste of time.

What I did observe was 15 folks, rodbuilders and custom rod end users (fisherman) watched this unfold and 80% looked like Spock in Star Trek, with one eyebrow raised.

Being a professional rod builder or wrapper is not anything to bank on. Some of the worst rod builders I know wrap rods professionally. Some of the things they do raise my eyebrows! But they need to get rods out the door and make some money. But what the hey, it's all fun and interesting.

As someone who has built rods for a couple decades and has tried all the various systems I'm convinced that for most spinning rods the new guide concept will cast as far or farther than anything else. Not by earthshattering differences but by enough to measure on average.

If your tests showed differently then I'd have to question the validity of the test or how well the rods were set up. In fact I don't know how you can do this in one afternoon. You'd have to get your best cone of flight set up which could take a couple hours, then strip the rod down and refix it with your best new guide concept system. Another two hours right there. You can't use different rods as no two blanks are the same and you can't just knock out one set of each and proclaim the test ready to begin.

I will be interested in the results if only to see if they show what I already know from years of using all types of these systems. Would be nice to see photos of the rods with the guides on them. The litmus test for any new guide concept rod is that archery target test. If you can sight down through the butt guide and each additional guide is framed by the one before it you've done pretty well. If the rings are hodge podge and up and down even a little, you don't have the new guide concept system. And this DOES make a difference.

By the way, you can also take a 12 foot rod and put just 4 great big guides on it and the thing will cast a mile. But it fishes like crap. Just an observation from some tests we did many years ago.

MIke (B).
"By the way, you can also take a 12 foot rod and put just 4 great big guides on it and the thing will cast a mile. But it fishes like crap. Just an observation from some tests we did many years ago."

Funny you should mention (write) that. Right now I'm reguiding a rod I built this past spring for a fellow that wanted to "cast a mile" and specified: 12 foot Seeker blank - guides 50 - 50 - 40 - 40 and 30 tiptop (made from a double foot casting guide with the non-flared foot rebent and wrapped under the tip). It came back last week -- "I got the bait out there but this isn't a fishing rod. I couldn't direct the fish through the surf and onto the beach" I certainly agreed with him that it is not a fishing rod - it will now be rewrapped in a more "conventional" style.

Mike - we built 6 different rods on teh same blank model. You are right not every blank is exactly the same, but tehy are exactly teh same enough that you recommend teh same blanks to your customers for certain types of fishing. Unless you guys order 50 blanks and test ast each one to make sure it casts exactly as the first one you ever built. Not scientific, but realistic.

The tests confirmed with what Mike B stated - the rod built Concept/Low Rider style casted the furthest. THis is eebrow raising to anyone outside of the internet rodbuilding community. There is en ENTIRE world of surffishermen who will see this data and still want a 40HH or a 50 stripper, just because "everyone knows" they cast the best.

ALso tested were Spiral v. traditional conventional. THEy basically casted teh same, with teh traditional throwing slightly longer - approximately 10 feet on a 230 foot cast. I will say that the results were more consistant with teh spinngin rods than conventional, for obvious reasons.

Those are the kind of results I would have expected. But yes, people will still want #50 (or larger) guides because that's how they expect surf rods to look. Anything new is going to be a hard sell, but it will happen over time.

Those of you who have been around long enough to remember the really nice Daiwa Tournament Series stuff (white graphite rods with blue/orange and grey wraps) might recall the nice little 9 foot plug rod they made. It only had 4 guides and while it would throw a country mile, any decent fish would result in a break-off. As the rod bowed over the line formed such sharp angles between the Dynaflow guides that a lot of friction was evidently created. You could just about count on breaking anything short of braid (which was still in its infancy at that time) any time you actually got a nice fish on the line.

Not that this really has anything to do with the tests Billy did, but Mike and Ken's post just reminded me of those rods. There were, in my opinion, the prettiest and some of the very best commercially made rods ever offered (if only they had added another guide or two on the 9 footer).

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