I'd like to ask for some opinions/options on a warranty situation I've run accross.

I built two rods (rainshadow RX7 9' 3 wts.) for some friends of a friend, giving them a considerable discount.

After a few months I get a call- 'both rods broke and they both broke in the same place'. I asked how they broke, I get 'they just broke'. Unhappy customers.

Finally get both back, intending to send them to Batson and see if there was either a problem with these particular blanks, or if I did something wrong (all the others I've built on this blank, including two I used all summer, are still unbroken).

When I examine the rods, it's obvious that both were broken by being twisted. The first guides above the ferrule on the tip sections are twisted out of alignment considerably. It actually broke the locking wraps on the guides (single foot alconites). One broke just below the guide, the other right at the where the guide leg hits the blank. On one rod, the stripping guide is also twisted to the point where the locking wraps broke.

It appears to me that the rods were broken because they tried to use the guides to twist on to take the rods apart. To me, this falls into the category of 'abuse', which I clearly state I don't cover in my warranty (I do clearly describe how to assemble and take apart the rod in the paperwork that accompanies each one).

So, my inclination is to tell them the rods aren't 'covered'. I really don't want to deal with someone who treats their equipment in this fashion.

What would you guys do?

Thanks,

Buddy

I think you have the situation right but there's always the possibility that the fishermen really don't understand that they just broke these rods through their own carelessness.

But you have to protect yourself. These guys will also break the next rods you build for them. I would state that the manufacturer says the rods were broken due to being twisted and that as such they aren't covered under warranty. Then tell them that you value their business and will help them out by agreeing to rebuild the rods at some discount, if they want.

The thing is, when people don't pay full price or when they get a discount, they often don't value the item they've bought and don't treat it like the fine piece of equipment it is.

For whatever it's worth, I only warranty my rods for 90 days now. After that it's the customers baby either way. Since most truly defective rods break during the first few uses, I get to rule that out and don't find myself in the situation you're in now. I feel for you and have been in your shoes in the past, but these guys broke the rod from improper use and it's their responsiblity. At least that's how I see it.

We live in a world of easy replacements. Buy a microwave oven from WalMart, use it for a year, intentionally stove in the door, take it back and they will either refund your money or give you a new one. Our society is getting used to that sort of treatment. But craftsmen like yourself cannot operate under that sort of practice.

It's hard to have to tell a customer that he broke his rod by his own abuse but I think you have to just be blunt and tell the guys that you only cover actual defects. Explain that you've got guides twisted out of alignment, which can't happen under normal fishing use, and that the break is evident of a twisting force being applied to the rod. In other words, the rods have been used and abused and did not break due to any actual defect.

That advise you receive is correct. What I might interject, is say that the tip section is not covered by a warranty do to the fact it was damaged by customer miss use. You do need to send the complete rod back to Baston. This way they can match the tip section.. That they well have to pay shipping and tip replacement charges. But you well replace the guides and wrap labor for free. In the near future you might put a note showing how to put the tip section on an off plus how to keep their rod looking like new

Good Wraps Bob

Buddy, I agree with Bob Balcombe's assessment, with one additional statement. If the problems were apparent that your customers may have broken the rods, I would certainly charge a fee to each for you to rebuild the tips. The labor to remove the guides, rewrap, and finishing is certainly valuable. Even if they broke the rods out of ignorance, you are certainly not deserving of applying free labor. Assembling and disassembling a rod isn't rocket science. I would certainly speak to them with the attitude of solving their unhappiness. Find a middle ground that the three of you can each live with. Good luck. Patrick Vernacchio

Thank you all for your responses.

I did finally speak to the customer.

It went badly.

I may have been undiplomatic.

I won't be doing anything to the rods, or for these people again.

I'm not happy about it all. Neither are they.

We'll get over it.

Thanks again.

Buddy

I don't build a lot of rods for others, mostly friends and their friends sort of deal. I always build for fun in the first place and don't want to make a business out of this so I don't charge much for my labor. I do ask one question before I build anyone a rod though, "how many rods have you broken in your life?". I had one "friend" that broke 2 or 3 rods year. I made it clear there would be no warranty. I also made it clear the rods he wanted required more care than the rest of his gear. Both rods he wanted were very light weight, thin walled, fast actioin bass rods. He broke the first one maybe 4 months later, then broke the pieces over his knee to make sure it was properly broken. The second one lasted a little over a year before he did the same. He is very rough on his gear, steps on them in the boat, lifts fish in, high stick on the hook set, tosses in the back of his truck. There is no way to warranty a rod for someone like this. I still talk to the guy, he wants me to build him another rod. I guess the point here is some people shouldn't get a warranty no matter what.
Good luck, steve walters

WOW!!

There's a saying that 5% of the fishermen catch 90% of the fish. I think also that 5% of the fishermen are responsible for 90% of rod breakage. When you talk to a guy that's broken a rod, more than likely he'll bring up all the other rods he's broken - usually to the tune of one every two to three years.

Very interesting,

I agree with Putter. Wow!
I have only broken one rod in thirty years and it was my fault.

Bruce Young
Landing Gear

This is why it is so important to cover this ground with the customer/s at the time the rod is ordered/sold. Let them know that only defects will be covered, what a defect constitutes and for how long the coverge is good for.

It's also a good idea to briefly cover things that often break rods; impacts, over-stressing, high-sticking, twisting, etc. This may save a rod from being broke and if the rod still gets broken the customer may at least understand what he did to break it.

..............

If you are dealing with a die-hard bass fisherman, a bubba that is tour circuit wantabe, just go ahead and charge him two prices because he is gonna break it sooner than later.

Later,
Gerald Mc

The guy that broke the rods was the "bass tour" guy. I've broken two rods in my life. Both my fault. Both near the tip. Both because the room or door shrank suddenly as I entered.
Later, steve walters

It's not just bass fishermen Gerald, salmon & steelhead fishermen can be of the same mindset. A question of warranty came up on a fishing board, after a guy broke his rod. I posted if you could buy quality (Loomis) rods at 1/2 price ($100) w/o a warranty or the same rod at regular price ($200) with a warranty, which would you buy? All responses came back from that fishing board that they would pay the $200 because they knew they would use the warranty. Granted this isn't a scientific survey, but my perception is the warranty is used more often than not, to insure the bad fishing styles of the 'bubbas', and not as a warranty for craftsmanship and quality to boost consumer confidence in the purchase. Rodbuilders need to explain to the consumer the limits of what a rod can be expected to do.

It will be interesting to see how the change in warranty policies, at St. Croix for example, will affect brand loyalty and market share, given that people have rediculous expectations about this subject. By taking themselves "off the hook" for unconditional replacements, I think St. Croix is putting themselves at risk but I also think that a limited warranty makes much more sense because it promotes honesty instead of deception. Can you imagine how much a car would cost if it came with a warranty that covered abuse and owner accidents?

The idea that you can buy 1 rod 1 time and be entitled to free replacements is absurd. We're not talking about free refills of soda that cost a restaurant 4 cents per glass. Still just like the free soda, the free replacement rod is factored into the original price and we all pay for people not having a reasonable grasp of personal responsibility.

Buddy, large rod manufacturers can play the warranty game to some extent because they deal in large volumes and presumably most people are honest. We deal in small volumes and 1 or 2 dishonest people can really affect the bottom line. So, I wouldn't lose sleep over this transaction. You honestly gave the guy a good deal and he dishonestly is trying to take advantage of you. Tell him to take a hike.

Nearly all the major manufacturers are eliminating their no-fault warranties this year or instituting a fee that must paid in order to take advantage of the warranty. This fee will run from $35 to $65.

The no-fault warranty is something that custom builders really couldn't compete with, but now they won't have to in the coming years.

............

I make it a point to tell the new owner that any blank warranty claims will have to be referred to the manufacturer. I will rebuild at a discount, but never for free. I warrant the labor for life - ie. the guide wraps, reel seat bonding, etc. and so far I have never had a problem with this area. Guides I replace at cost, sometimes at no cost depending on the customer (number of rods I have made for him/her). I do build on "no name" blanks that are not warranted in any way, I make this clear to the buyer in both words and the price. So far everyone is happy.

One time a fisherman called "Shorty" from the Washington D.C. area broke an EXPENSIVE 30lb class rod I had made for him while fishing it (or so he claims). He claimed he was participating in a fishing tournament and needed a replacement quick. I gave in and gave him a new rod that I had pre-built for another customer. Well later I found out from Shorty's friends that they had all been all drunk while fishing from a pier and that Shorty had fallen over onto his rod, breaking the rod - that is what really broke the rod. The guy flat out lied at me. I ate the cost of the new blank, labor, and all my sincere efforts to please a less than honest customer. From then on its and issue between the customer and manufacturer. I will provide an address and point of contact, maybe even shipping materials - but no more automatic replacements.

Lou

The thing is that most blank manufacturers will replace blanks that have been broken due to abuse at no charge. I guess they do this to form customer "goodwill" but I sort of wish they wouldn't. It only makes the customer think that they are supposed to replace any blank that breaks no matter what the cause.

I use to refer my customers to the manufacturer as well but I won't do that any more. Too many free blanks sent back to the customer who then expected me to rebuild the rod for free. They would say "the manufacturer sent me a free blank so you know the first one must have been defective."

Now I send them back and if I get a free blank back I still charge the customer a fee to replace the rod and use the free blank to minimize the economic impact on me!

Hi,

During the design meeting I explain my warranty to my customers.

I warranty my work for 1 year only. This is to protect me from the gorillas. Most of my customers are very honest and take care of their rods. Yeah, I did have one guy beat me up when I first started the business.

I explain if the blank is broken they have to send it back to the manufacturer. I will supply the info. If they get a new blank back, I will build them the new rod for 1/2 my labor cost plus any new components needed/used.

To date this has been beneficial to them and me.

Whatever your warrantee make sure they understand it before they sign up for a rod.

Capt Neil Faulkner

Thanks again for all the input.

I felt really badly about how things went with my customer last night.

This morning I called and apologized, and we worked it out.

I'll be sending the rods back to the factory so that they can fit a tip to each. I'll make sure they know this isn't a warranty situation, and that I expect to pay for the new tips.

The customer will pay for the replacements, exactly what I'm charged plus shipping.

The customer offered to pay for my labor to rewrap the tips. He finally admitted that the rods broke exactly how I thought they had.

I declined. I'm going to do this one for free as a self imposed penalty for my being such an ass to the man on the phone.

I really do need to learn to keep my mouth shut when I'm upset.

They DO know that this is it as far as any warranty or such goes on these rods.

I do feel better about doing it this way. It will only cost me an hour or so of labor. I'll have a couple of somewhat satisfied customers. That is worth something to me. How much? Depends, of course.

Thanks again.

Buddy