As a St. Croix blank distributor, and on behalf of Mr. Dave Schluter at St. Croix (VP- Manufacturing), I'd like to bring rodbuilder's attention to a post from another rodbuilding message board, regarding a situation of an internet deal regarding a blank offering that are apparently not St. Croix blanks. Take Heed.


Date: 02-21-02 17:55

There is a website selling counterfeit "St. Croix rod blank seconds" with a few models listed. The website is www.buyarod.com. These are not St. Croix blanks, and anyone who has purchased these blanks under the assumption that they are should consider getting a refund.

As always, an offer that sounds too good to be true probably is. As has always been the case, genuine St. Croix blanks are available exclusively through authorized distributors only. Please contact us at 800-826-7042 for a list of rod blank distributors.

David Schluter
VP - Manufacturing
St. Croix Rods
www.stcroixrods.com

I just visited that site. The description of each of the 6 blanks is "Great blank for a fraction of the price of a St. Croix". There is no way to tell who made the blanks.

Hugh Miller

I have visited the site in the past and it did claim to be St. Croix seconds. Never even thought of purchasing. prices weren' t that good to buy a second. St. Croix is not that expensive to begin with and why give up warranty!
My .02
Mark Schulte

These blanks were being sold on @#$%& as St. Croix seconds also. Thats where I came across the website address.

Ray Alston
Goldrush Rods

The site also says Fish Stix which I assume is also "borrowed" from Jeff Vadakin DBA Fish Stix.

I have not looked at the site. I do have 4 different builders/businesses listed in my subscriber base under the name "Fish Stix". They are scattered in various parts of the US.

Rod blanks all look pretty much the same in many ways so counterfitting is not hard to do. Good think somebody was on the lookout here, although I would suspect some builders have already been taken on the deal.

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Thanks for the info almost fell for this myself and no way I would have been able to tell the authenticity, now I will look for just the authorized dealers, thanks again, another good reason to have this board.

This is probably is a dumb question, but are these fake blanks any good?

I bought one a couple of months ago on @#$%&, It was listed as St.Croix blem 9' 8wt blank. When I examined it it was pure JUNK, GARBAGE, and unusable. I e -mailed the guy for a refund which he did give me within an hour. He had them on @#$%& for about a month or so, not sure if it's the same outfit or not. (Michigan address)

The guy on @#$%& selling them is ethomas@hrperspectives.com and he is a charleton! Claims they are St. Croix but they are a cheap import - pure Grabage!!! At least I got my money back. Buyer Beware!

Dave,I am very surprised by your comments.I purchased several blanks from Ed Thomas and they were very nice.The blanks were straight as an arrow,nicely finished and had a smooth fast action.I found him to be one of the best people I've ever dealt with.He always returned my e-mails,shipping was very fair and fast,and the product was as described.He has told me that I can get a complete refund at any time if I'm not 100% satisfied with the blanks.He certainly doesn't come across as someone who is trying to pull a scam.He told me that the blanks are SCIV blems that he picked up from a St.Croix rep himself.After comparing the blanks to a factory UL rod I believ they are exremely similar in action and weight.Judging by his actions and communication with me I really don't have enough reason to boubt him. He has also told me that there has been one buyer from him that he has been having alot of problems with.Apperently this person has been using various names and e-mails and Ed is considering taking legal action.I can speak of the other web site,but judging by the way they are acting and on comments made about their past,I would certainly avoid any buisiness dealing with them.I would certainly not hesetate to deal with Ed Thomas again though.

It should be reiterated that St. Croix blanks are available exclusively through authorized distributors only.
The fact that any blank is bought from a nice guy, or that the blanks appear nice does not necessarily guarantee them to be St. Croix blanks. Many blanks can appear straight as an arrow, nicely finished, and with a smooth fast action. The issue here being that if you want a genuine St. Croix blank, it is in your best interest to purchase it directly from a St. Croix blank dealer or distributor. The blanks are labelled with the official St. Croix label and logo with the model number, and without this you really don't know what you would be getting. Also, this label on the blank is required by the company for any warranty claims.
Again:Buyer Beware!

Rich
Richard's Rod & Reel
(yes, we are an authorized St. Croix Blank distributor, and provide this information for the benefit of custom rodbuilders)

I find it amusing though that most companies deny that they even produce blems or seconds.We all know that is not true.I have a good freind who has purchased blems from Loomis and from Sage in the past.He got them from the companies in person.They are the same blanks,with the same actions.The only difference was the color wasn't quite right or they weren't straight,so they ended up as blems or seconds.He got them at a fraction of the price because they had no logo or warranty.Obviously if these things are important to some people then they should stick with factory blanks with warranties.As far as a fishing tool goes though,they are exactly the same.Most authorized dealers do not want people to purchase these blanks as there is no where near the profit in it for them.Saying that the only way to buy a St.Croix blank is thru an authorized distributor is only a half truth.That is the only way to buy a blank with a logo and full warranty,but there are lots of blanks out there that are exactly the same in every way except for a blem.They will not look as good as a factory first and they will not carry the logo or warranty.They will however be the exact same taper,weight,length,construction and action.It's not fair to say that there are no good seconds out there because there are.If you are only interest in building a quality fishing tool and if you are not concerned with visual aspects then there are lots.If warranty and visual impression is important then factory firsts are obviously the way to go.

Tony,

If you are building rods for yourself, and you don't care if they look good, and you don't care if they are straight, good for you. I build rods to sell to people. I want my rods to look good and be as straight as possible. All my rods must have some warrenty on the blank from the factory. I am not going to sell a rod to a customer, that the factory who made the blank, won't stand behind. I stand behind my rod's workmanship. A blank with a warrenty protects me as well as the customer. I purchase my rod parts from the suppliers listed on the left, for my security.

Respectfully,
Bill Doherty

Bill I totally agree.I would never say that anyone who is building a rod with the intent to sell it should use a blem.Customers deserve to get the best product possible for their money.That means a quality blank with a logo and warranty.As for myself I have no problem using a rod without those features for my own use.They all cast the same.I would not however,buy or build on a blank that is not straight or looked bad.I have seen a brand new factory GLX 10ft 9wt at my local shop for sale that was the most crooked rod I've ever seen.They said that it would cast just the same,but who in their right mind would pay almost $1000 CAN for a crooked rod.I've seen plenty of blems that look good and a few factory rods that were terrible.Obviously,in most cases,you get what you pay for and a factory rod or blank should be better than a blem.I never said I would want a crooked or poor looking rod,only that for my own personal use,I'm more interested in a rods performance and value than cosmetics or warranty.If I were in the buisiness of building rods for others,I would feel the same way you do.

In this case, one of the owners of St. Croix said that they have never offer blanks in that color, blems, seconds or first quality. It is quite unlikely that these are St. Croix products.

A rep may have sold him the blanks under false pretenses and he may believe them to be St. Croix blanks. But I don't think David would lie to us about this. St. Croix has been entirely too good to the rod building community in matters such as these.

Regardless of what they may be, those who are willing to take a chance on a good buy on a blank that may serve them well are certainly free to do so. (Many serviceable rods have been built on blems and seconds.) I don't use them, but know many who do.

I think the original point was to let everyone know that according to St. Croix, the blanks in question are not actual St. Croix blanks.

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Thanks Tom, but here is something for anyone selling a product by a brand name and cannot prove it's authenticity to think about. This is what could happen to you if a consumer and the company whose name you used for that product file legal action against you. (NJ Law)
First a knock at the door, the local PD with a warrant, on go the silver bracelets, the product in question is confiscated, now to the Greybar hotel until you post bail. Next a lawyer that's going to cost 150.-250. an hour for court. Your found guilty, the sentence refund the consumer all costs including legal fees, he keeps the product, the confiscated goods are given to the Company who filed the action and then a fine the court costs, possible jail time, you don't have the money to pay the fine and a lien goes against your house or business and on and on. This is no joke, I see it happen at a local @#$%& where every weekend the Police take away dealers selling counterfeit products ( in cuffs), and I've seen the outcome in court, and it's not a pretty site!

Tony,

I will restate what I said for clarity; the blanks you have (blue gloss 9' fly blank, SCIV action) were not built here; second or otherwise. If you had purchased them with the thought that they were generic, that's one thing. But you purchased them with the idea that they were built by St. Croix and then you got on the board to ask if anyone could verify this. That's where I originally got involed in this mess which led to the discovery of the questionable website.

If what you state is true about brandnames, why did you bother to get on the board and ask for verification in the first place? You got taken by a really nice guy (usually the most effective) who told you a lie. I encourage the really nice guy to come forward on this board and state his position. Also, our reps DO NOT SELL SECONDS. Period.

It's maddening to get on a site and see our artwork (the little photos of the blanks come from our rodbuilder catalog) and vague text that refers to St. Croix seconds. We work hard to develope a reputation and the "really nice guy" you refer to is just a crook stealing our effort in this industry. We have to defend ourselves, it's more than just not admitting that we do build seconds.

I would not normally say this because I feel it's more info than neccesary, but considering the content of this thread I will anyway. We chop up our fly rod butt section seconds, they do not make it outside the building. Therefore, it is impossible for a complete fly blank second to make it to market. That's how I can definately say you got taken. There, how is that for verifying your purchase of said St. Croix blem.

Dave Schluter

Dave,
I feel in your aggravation. Some people have a hard time not believing the nice guy. heck I think we all have bought a new car in our lifetime. What do you think a car salesman is!!! I do think some of the posters here had been out of line making assumptions with out viable proof. We all appreciate you coming forward with that information about the company policy on blank disposal. Sorry you had to come out with a six shooter and a lasso LOL.
Please keep up the good work and don't let this be discouraging.
Also, as far as saving a buck, I don't know how a person could go wrong with a Real St. Croix. The prices are great in my honest opinion.
Mark Schulte

Dave,I owe you and St.Croix an apology as I did not know that they destroy all seconds.Many top companies do not do this.They allow their blems to reach the market and then deny that they make them at all.While the blanks I purchased certainly do feel the same as the SCIV,I have decided to return them for a refund.It turns out that even the seller seems to think that he has been taken by the person he bought them from.The only thing I know for sure is that I'm better off sticking with factory firsts in the future.I know,I know,I deserved to get burned by trying to save money.I'm man enough to admit when I'm wrong so I hope you won't hold my mistake against me.I got the blanks for less than 1/3 of the retail price so the diffence in cost would have allowed me to purchase the components too.I have been on disability for 3 years now so I am on a shoe string budget and factory SCIV blanks are out of my price range right now.Also,I have had possitive experiences with rods built on Loomis and Sage blems before so I guess that's why I didn't have a problem with using a SCIV blem.I'm glad you resonded in the way you did,to set the record straight.I hope you understand that my opinions on blems and their performance was simply based on my own personal experiences with other companies rods in the past.If I had known that St.Croix destroyed it's blems then obviously I would never had purchased them or commented on them on this board.The seller has offered me a complete refund so hopefully I can put that money towards some factory blanks in the future.He also told me that he is not affiliated in any way with the website that everyone was commenting about.All this negative publicity though certainly doesn't help his buisiness either.He said he won't be dealing with that rep in the future.Time will tell I guess.I hope everyone will understand that I'm not some cheap jerk who's trying to save $10.I'm just trying to make the most of what little money I have.I was willing to give up the logo and warranty to have a rod that I loved and could afford.Not all of us are fortunate enough to be able to afford top quality factory equipment.I guess I'll have to consider using some of the smaller blank building companies to find something in my price range.At least then I'll know what I'm getting.Sorry to everyone that I offended.