This is a much talked about area of our business, but continues to be very subjective. So I thought I'd try a very "unscientific" experiment that should yield some interesting responses, if you care to participate. Perhaps this could help all of us with our pricing guidelines and ultimatly add some continuity.

The following is a list of components and their respective prices as quoted from some of our sponsors listed to the left to make a fictitious light action spinning rod. I've tried to select a rod with components that would fall within the median cost range so as to stay away from extremely expensive or very cheap rods and components.

Consider the following components:

G.Loomis GL2 6' spinning blank 6-12 # test line, light action .....$59.00

The handle will consist of a rear grip made from 8 cork rings at $.60 each and a rubber butt cap at $.50. The foregrip will be made from
four more cork rings. Total cost of the handle is $7.70. The rod maker will glue the rings to the rod and turn the handle on a lathe to the customers specs.

Fuji reel seat DPS17 at $6.98.

Guides will be 6 Pac Bay black hialoy single foots with tip totalling $5.47

Use Fuji's folding hookeeper at $3.69 and a rubber winding check at $.30.

Shipping and handling charges will total $11.00.

(I know you might not select some of these components, but humor me here, O.K.?)

The rod will have underwraps under each guide and a basic diamond wrap just in front of the winding check.

The rod should be inscribed with the customer's name and any other description you might normally employ in the inscription.

Total cost to the rod builder of the above listed components is $94.14.

What will you charge your customer to build this rod as listed here, before taxes. (Do not consider taxes in your computation)

Please advise how you arrived at your price.

I'm not sure if this is a valid experiment as many custom rod builders don't operate this way. But what the heck. I would charge a total of $250 for the rod and that includes the blank and component cost you listed above. No decorative wraps or grip inlays for that price though. Just basic construction as outlined by your instructions. My minimum gross profit is set at $150. That's how I arrived at the price.

I should say that it is rare that I would use the blank and component you selected and since I normally use more expensive parts you might can see why I can get the $150 gross on the total rod. Don't really know if I could on this one or not.

Eric,
Not to be cute, but let's for a moment throw this back and ask what would YOU charge the customer for your work. Also, how did YOU arrive at YOUR price?

Anyone can give you a figure, say something like you should get X amount percentage over the factory equivalent, or a set $$ number above the cost of components.

There are factors to take into account also as to HOW the rod was constructed, or was it merely 'assembled'?? How did you arrive at the end performance, balance, and overall 'feel' that is talked about for custom rods? What was your stress distribution like, and test casting? Were you pleased with the guide placement, for example?

What this alludes to is that each craftsman will incur their skill, and therefore what they see as their particular value to the rod. Why should the rod require underwraps for each guide? Do you incorporate a security, or locking wrap. What type of epoxy, and method of application did you use? Did the inscription applied come about by weaving thread technique? how's your penmanship?
I could go on and on with as many questions as you present, and the conclusion about the final price is probably already as you might expect me to say..........IT DEPENDS!

Rich
Solryrich Custom Rods

well your components are a little high cost wise i charge 10.00 a foot plus thier name on a decal the difference would be your blank is 59.00 mine is more like 16-20.00 so ill charge full cost up front for the blank then go with my 10.00 a foot less my blank cost total is 59.00+ 60.00-16.00=103.00 this will be sans any fancy butt wraps but ill include any trim wraps he may desire
hope this helps ....John T Burford aka Tightline Rod's

I understand Mike's comments all too well. I often tell builders who wish to get into this craft as a business, even as a sideline, that they should always make at least $100 over and above the retail price of the components. If you don't do at least that, you are simply not making money on the sale.

Some can charge more than others due to differences in name recognition, geographical location, skill, ability, special touches or set-ups, etc.

I think we can all agree that most custom builders charge too little for their services. But again, it depends on the clientele you prefer to market to and the niche you want to be in.

.....................

Some of the best advice Tom K gave me was a simple idea:
selling everything-to low
selling nothing- to high
find a price somewhere in the middle
John

I had a very good and very successful businessman (He makes and sells the food flavorings that most companies in the US use today) tell me that if everybody accepts your price - you are too low. If nobody does - then you are too high.

He made the statement that you should set or raise your price until you lose some business. Then you will be about right. Give it some thought and you will see the wisdom in that statement.

...................

To throw another twist into this equation, I wrap rods as a winter activity to keep me occupied in the evening during the long cold Northern Michigan winters. My main concern is to recover the cost of components+ a few bucks for some new equipment for me. I have just purchased an inexpensive lathe for turning grips.

I have been tying flies for over 30 years and have done the commercial route. I have no interest in making fly tying or rod building a commercial interest. I have more fly rods than I can ever use, but really enjoy that activity. I have 25 blanks and components in the closet right now and am constantly looking to purchase others.

My son, nephews, brother, son-in-law, daughters, wife, neighbors that flyfish, all have at least one custom rod, some more. I will also donated rods to various fundraisers

Maybe I am nuts for doing it, but I get cabin fever like you can't believe.

Herb Knowlton

I charge components (hardware only, this doesn't include thread, finish, towels, alcohol (denatured, not the kind you drink, HEHEHE!) sandpaper etc.....) plus $220 for flyrods and $150 for casting or spinning. Reasoning is flyrods have more guides to wrap, and smaller ones at that which make it harder to finish the very small wraps). Also, some of the reasoning goes along with what the current market is doing. Today, it is not uncommon for someone to spend $4-600 on a flyrod. But, when it comes to casting and spinning, that price becomes way out of range. Current market here would see people spending $150-250 on those rods. (these are factory rods I am referring to). So to answer your direct question, my price on the above rod would be about $250. That is with a weaved design or feather inlay. I don't do the butt wraps, for a few reasons, 1) haven't learned how 2) haven't ever had a request for one 3) I primarily build light, small diameter blanks and placing that on those seems a little out of place. 4) I try to leave the blank exposed directly in front of the winding check so the angler can place his finger of the reel hand on the blank for sensitivity.

When I first started selling custom rods. Tried to compet with mass produced rod market and almost went under. What you are selling is a unique fishing tool that no one else has and can't copy because you designed it to your spec. Also you do little things that the mass- produced manufatures do not take the time to do.
So in reality you are selling your workmanship. Exampe when I was in my teens I work for my uncle who had a custom autobody shop. He had custermers coming in all the time for custom paint jobs. He would quote them a price to which the client would respond that he was to $#^&**ing HIGHT and stomp off to EARL SCHRIB for their $99.00 dallor paint special. Then a couple of months they would be back wanting my uncle to fix a screwed up paint job.
So if you have the experience and know how charge a price that is fair to your special trade. Remember you can push a broom for 8.00 dallors an hour. What you have listed in just parts I would charge about 225 dallors any thread work would be extra.
Bob

i might be wrong but say the rod costs you 130 to make then you add 100 dollars for labor. Then everyone is buying your rod. However you then raise your labor to 120 dollars and you lose bussiness. So isnt is more profitable to charge less in the long run?

230 a rod * 50 customers = 11500 you make 5000
250 a rod * 40 customers = 10000 you make 4800

You lost 10 customers and and 200 dollars profit. W

Many a rodbuilder will put a sign up or say "this is what I charge". Fair and well. Take into account what is your workamship, and what you feel really that is put into the rod to make it worth a certain dollar value. Each craftsman will arrive differently to the final price. Again, this points to the individuality of most custom rodbuilders. At the end of the day, month, year or whatever time frame chosen check to see what actually is sold. Lowering the price may do nothing to increase sales without more advertising or effective marketing strategy. Then all you have is more advertising cost, and the race is on to produce more and more 'factory-like' rods.

The 'somewhere in between' strategy seems to be the norm, but there also is that market which will appreciate quality at a higher price range. If that is your pursuit, the workmanship or 'value added' quality has to come through. If you seek the lower end of the market with intent to compete with factory, perhaps you'll be successful but more often than not will result in failure. It's difficult to use a much lower quality blank to compete with a good quality factory blank, with all assembly work being equal...simply won't figure in competition. As an angler, I know I'll prefer to buy the factory rod with the better blank at the same price. You must offer more of yourself with the idea as a custom CRAFTED piece, and then the line of thinking falls into place for you AND your customer.

To add: A very difficult pattern to shake is when a rodbuilder establishes a lower price range to just cover costs, and then want to move up to a higher standard of clientele wanting those special custom rods. Price increase at this point needs more justifying on your part to convince those who were paying less before. Best advice is to not simply to cover costs, or compete with factory from the beginning. A good product will deserve a good price, and need not be given away or discounted heavily without good reason.

Rich
Solyrich Custom Rods.

But raise your labor price to $200 and lose those same 10 customers and you have made more money for less work.

The scenarios just aren't something we can arbitrarily arrive at. This sort of thing only comes through experience. In my experience, a $20 increase isn't likely to result in many lost sales. That's a small percentage increase considering the overall cost.

What I would prefer to do is double the price, lose half the customers and make the same money for 1/2 the work.

But again, you never know how this is going to work. You just try it and see what happens and adjust accordingly.

.................

Just thought I'd check in on this one.My method is to charge retail price for all components and materials. Materials include adhesives, finish, color preserver, cork seal, etc, plus the price of each color of thread used in the butt and guide wraps, and don't forget the brushes! On top of this , my labor charge is $12.00 per foot of completed rod, which includes a simple open chevron or diamond wrap. Closed wraps or weaves are extra, how much depends on the complexity of the wrap. It's simple to figure out, since it's only a buck an inch. If I decide to raise my price, I can go to a buck and a quarter, or a buck and a half, so on and so forth. Hope this helps. Bob Vasko

Thanks to all for your input. As stated in my original scenario, this was a very "unscientific" experiment, but I believe we can all see it has garnered some interesting and varied responses and comments.

I tried to keep the rod example as simple as possible because of so many variables unique to each rod crafter and their technique.

There appears to be a wide range of profit margins for this ficticious rod, from almost nothing to about $250.00 plus.

My personal method of computing the price on THIS rod would be to double the retail cost of the components and add another $25.00. If it were an IMX or higher grade rod, I might add on more. I try to analyze my customer when pricing and hope I quote him a price that will allow me a fair profit and make him feel as though he has received a good value and thereby order more rods from me in the future. Too many times though I know I've priced my rods too low simply because I like the guy and in my haste to help him with his rod I underprice it just to please him. The older I get and the more my rod building business increases the more I realize I don't want to work as hard as before and my rod prices have gradually increased.

As indicated by some above, fly rods present a completly different pricing guideline. In the present atmosphere of fly fishing mania, fly rod prices have sky rocketed. Seems like ever since the movie "A River Runs Through It" came out, every BMW drivin' yuppie wants to fly fish and the market responded with rods and reels in that price range. Twenty years ago who would have dreamed a factory fly rod would cost $400.00 to $600.00 plus and fly reels that cost $350.00 to $500.00. It still amazes me, but I ain't bitchin' cause you can ask just about anything you want on a fly rod these days - and I do!

Once again, thanks for all your responses; they've given me much food for thought and I hope we all got something out of this little experiment.

Hi,

Well here goes! Very interesting posts.

How good is your work? What is your knowledge and experience level? What is the ecomonic situation in your area? What is your competition? Do you build for friends or customers? Do you respect your competition or don't care?

My thoughts. Living on an island surrounded by salt water there are many tackle shops and many build rods. I know many of these people, fish with some of them and purchase from others. I share info with many of them. There are also many who just build custom rods. Many are personal friends.

I will not sell for less than the factory rods given each being equal.

We have many buyers who play the field to get builders to bid against each other. When I realize this is happening and it is a friends customer I raise my price way above the friends. Friendship is more important!!!

Many builders have the expenses of a store etc and other work out of their homes. Many times it is a full time career verses a part time endeavor. An unfair advantage there.

Am watching the Olympics as I try to write this and am having trouble concentrating on this post.

How much would you like to make per rod and does your work command that price? Are you building on blanks that makes cattching fish a more enjoyable experience for your clients?

I use all 1st quality components. I do donation jobs. If I am aware of a special situation I will contribute. I build a very good fishing tool. However I am not into the fancy butt wraps. Fortunately my customers are not either.

All right capt, enough already. Get your eyes off the skaters and fess up.

I consider my price to be mid range for labor rates. The elite builders can command alot more and I am sure I am more expensive than many.

I take cost of components plus shipping, misc materials etc=$25, labor for basic work = $200, now add the excise tax and on top of that 8.5% sales tax . That is the total price.

My salt water rods average $375 to $425. Surf rods $400 to $550.

Much of this depends on cost of blank.

For the customer base I have I am at about as high as I can go right now. In the future it will go higher as the economic situation gets better or I find wealthier customers. HA!!!!

Please don't take any of this as arrogance. After all these years if I am going to work I will get paid what i think is fair.

Don't short change yourself just to get an order. Give value for getting value. Know your limits. Don't be afraid to turn down an order if it is beyond you at present.

I hope this helps you.

Capt Neil

Eric, I too have at times underpriced rods to make a sale, and have thought about pricing rods from many different angles. The problem I have with charging double tha amount of components is that it is no more difficult to build a rod using $50.00 of components as it is to build one with $500.00 of components. Just my 2 cents again. I'm really enjoying this thread. Bob Vasko

A couple more inputs here for what it's worth. I've seen high end bass, muskie, S/W, and 'artsy-craftsy' rods sold for every bit as much as a $400 to $600 fly rods, so the market is not limited to a certain type. (also spinning reels costing $700 or more). I've built high end graphite bass rods for much more than a fly rod would go for in my market area. AND the rods of this type flowed into a construction pattern for me as smooth as butter, which means the time put into them was no more... just because of the use of quality fitting high end materials. The idea that more quality, less work, and fewer customers applied in these situations. In other words, no need to build more rods for the competition of factory. Why, because they are so unique and personalized that nothing like them exists, so the customer will pay. Not for everyone, mind you, but for the market that is looking for this.

The market fluctuates, but again one can't generalize about being 'guaranteed' a price range on popularity of fishing methods. I see a different trend in my area for instance in musky or tournament fishing, thus popularity for certain characteristics wanted in these specialties (thus, also a demand for a higher price for a locating a discriminating craftsman).

The other point about doubling the cost of components for pricing. This is at best arbitrary, and at worst can shortchange your skills.
If the 'doubling' achieves the goal for you in obtaining the minimum you'll allow yourself to gain on the rod in terms of all that is mentioned above, then this is the standard you've set upon your self and your work. Some rods that should sell for more, would be sold for less than they should have been. Also, with doubling the retail of high end components can way overvalue certain rods when adding your exta bit for labor. It's really that simple. In the end, you decide what you're worth, and the market will accept or reject the 'value' based on much of what you might show or explain with your work and what the customer sees as craftsmanship.

The idea about 'unscientific' in this survey is aptly put. Comparing one apple rodbuilder to an orange rodbuilder makes for a mixed fruit outcome. If you talk about simple constructing between two rod assemblers, the value can become more absolute, as that is how factory rods could be valued.

Rich
Solyrich Custom Rods

Hi,

Just a little side note as a insight to the type of people you run into sometimes.

Did a 3 day fishing show this past weekend. I did many demos on why build or buy a spiral wrapped rod. I convinced many fishermen BUT not all. You should see the expression on their faces when they tried to figure what was wrong with THAT rod on the table.

A fisherman who has fished on the boat I run asked the price of the rod. There are about 10 people around the table. I told him $380. He asked for a discount. This is my personal rod. I told him I don't give discounts and it would be unfair to the people who accept the quote I give them. His friend standing next to him paid me the quoted price to build him a rod. I held my ground so he asks how much the reel costs. I say about $95 in a local tackle shop. Next he says he will give me $400 for the custom rod AND reel.

Like any buisiness most of the people you deal with are great BUT OH BOY those few others.

Did you see those American gals take GOLD in the bobsled. WOW!!!!

Capt Neil

I have a fella who wants a rod built. He fishes almost everyday during peak season for steelhead. We talked over the phone about how HE wanted his rod to look like and how HE wanted it to function. After all it's a CUSTOM rod. These people like everyone else has said are looking for something truly unique and something they dreamed up. It's our job as CUSTOM rod builders to interpret what they say and build it. A person who wants a rod they spec'ed out will pay the cash for it with no questions asked. Remember it's not how you want the rod to look and preform IT'S HOW YOUR CUSTOMER wants it to look and preform. All we can do is make suggestions and steer him in the right direction. My $.02 for what it's worth.