I have a Loomis 11.5 ft (1-3 oz) spinning surf rod I am planning to rewrap. I was thinking of using Fuji Alconite guides. The largest guide in the Alconite series is 30 (at least in the catalogs I've seen). Is this big enough for the first guide? The present guide is a 50 - comparing the Fuji 30 to the Loomis 50, the midpoint heights are similar, the Fuji being slightly shorter, but of course the inner diameters are way different.
This brings me to the second question, which has to do with the ratio of inner diameter to height of the guide. As I understand the concept, you first measure the slant angle of the reel you're planning to use, for example along a table. Say this is theta - and the spot on the blank directly below the face of the reel is x = 0. The intersection of a straight line normal to the face of the reel to the blank is a distance L = Ho/ tangent(theta), where Ho is the height to the center of the reel face - this is the same L that you measure using the side of a table as Tom K has discussed. If you draw a line from the center of the reel face to where it intersects the blank the height at any point x is H(x) = Ho (1-x/L). Then I think the idea is to take your guide, measure the height to its centerline, Hg, and place it where it satisfies the above relationship Hg = H(x) (you can obviously also do this by eye).
In some of Don Morton's discussions on guide placement, he mentions placing the first guide so that the line just rubs the interior when it is rotated around the reel. The diameter of the line is the same as the reel at x=0, call it Do. Then at any distance x, it will be D(x) = Do (1-x/L) - this will be the inside diameter of the guide (Dg). The only way that you could get the centerline of the guide and its inside diameter to satisfy both criteria would be if Dg/Hg = Do/Ho - that is that the aspect ratio of the guide is the same as that of the reel. This is not true in general.
So what is more important if you can't satisfy both criteria? Guide height at the centerline or line just rubbing the inside?

Where the coeficient of the line passes at right angles to the inside face of the stripping guide, the pressure exerted on right or left quadrant of the elipse becomes critical. This would sum up the formula for determining quadrant axis pressure as it relates to the total line force exerted. This angle can be fairly and simply adjusted so that the force times the elipse angle will allow for a fairly smooth apature and departure up through the guide. If again you look at the elipse and angle forces it becomes apparent that the circumference of the guide insert and the diameter of the line will place the greatest amount of resistance and build-up of heat at that moment and at that angle. This greatly reduces the over-all travel across the exact point of the coeficient which starts a whole new phenomina know as line worp. Now remember that this only accounts for the line diameter as it passes the exact moment of transfer. Other diameters of line will follow a similar pnenomina, but to a lesser degree. Another way to counter this pnenomina is increase the altitude of the lower quadrent of the guide from the rob blank. Line worp now becomes the most important factor to consider since the distortion of the line is moving past the exact moment so fast that the molocular make-up actually starts to advance in ways we don't even want to discuss. In essence the molocular change caused by the heat build-up at that exact moment across the exact elipse and quadrant actually change and start to slow down. The line resistance to strain also starts to buckle under the enormous force of nature. Also known as "shortness of breath", or simply being "winded". This becomes the breaking point at which the efficiency and accuracy of the cast go's to @#$%& in a hand basket. This is why so many people have a hard time with this simple concept. If one was to simply stick to the basics one would see very quickly that by just simply using a guide diameter of 1/2 the size approximate to the reel spool where the lines comes off, and by using your eyeball to place the strippper guide so as to eliminate as much angle as possible as the line passes around the guide, you would rather quickly discover if your guide has the required height to be adequate for the purpose. Lets keep it simple. Sorry couldn't resist.

You guys are making this way too difficult. Just lie the rod/reel on a table edge and align the reel spool centerline with the table edge. Where the table edge intersects your rod blank is where your choke guide should go. That puts the line on a straight path from the reel to the rod in the same plane as the reel spool is aimed. That's pretty much it. From that point forward you can use the smallest guide possible to route the line on out to the tip. From there back, you want to size and locate your guides so that the straight line path is not deviated from or disturbed.

Part of the beauty of this system is that you needn't measure anything or know anything about mathematics. The set up is almost automatic. You only need some experience in how many guides to use. Everything else is done for you by that table edge.

Ring size is more critical on heavier line test sizes. In almost every case you would want it to be at least 1/2 the diameter of the reel spool face.



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There is a double footed Fuji Alconite, size 40. BMNAG 40 is the model number. Selling a lot of these type guides for larger spin type rods.

Bob McKamey -- Custom Tackle Supply

Tom is right. And in the article he did in the magazine he said that while the aim to get the line path to go through the center of each guide ring it is almost impossible to get guides high enough that let you do this easily. He's right. So I did what the article suggested next which is to place the guides to the inside outer edge is in line with the line path. This is easier to do and casts just as well. The table edge thing will set this up for you with no hassle.

The system is fantastic and takes maybe 2 minutes to set up correctly. I'll never go back to anything else on my spinning rods.

Sorry if my question sounded long-winded and impenetrable. I just wanted to give the background of what was confusing me. On your replies, it sounded to me like Tom was saying getting the line to go through the center of the guide was more important, and Mike said that getting the diameter of the line to match the inner diameter of the line was more important. I am going to match the rod up with a Daiwa ZA, which has a very large spool, so I'm not sure that even the 40 that Bob mentions is anywhere close to half the spool diameter, but its better than a 30.

If you read the article again you will see where it says that the most important thing is that the line travel in a straight path from reel spool centerline to the intersection point. And I am pretty sure Tom mentioned that in most cases you would have to use guides that would put the path on the outermost inside edge of each guide ring and that it would not hinder the cast in any way. This has also been my experience.

On very large saltwater rods I have had to fudge a bit and often bring the line in at a bit of angle to that first guide. This is mostly on larger surf rods only. But from that point on the edge of the butt guide ring I keep the line moving in a straight line directly to the choke guide. Works very well.

Thanks, Mike - You"re saying that the path of the line is the most important aspect. But then Don Morton's rotation method may not be valid. I guess the best way to do it may just be to put the guides on and cast them to find the best location - but I still think there is an optimal strategy. It may be that the commercially available guides don't fit that strategy.