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9 years ago
jim spooner
Bill,
At the risk of beating a dead horse (Ha).
From an earlier post: The mfg.’s that trim blanks to accommodate different LURE WEIGHT requirements would have specs based on prior testing as part of their development process. The designers can use formulas to get within certain parameters (including LURE WEIGHTS), but further testing is needed to refine the engineering process.
I can tell you
Forum: rodboard 9 years ago
jim spooner
John,
Now I’m with ya.
Subjective feel is kind of an abstract commodity. As Tom mentioned previously, measuring a blank/rod’s resonant frequency would get you close. I also think the blank’s/rod’s “efficiency” (Power divided by weight) can contribute to feel and/or sensitivity (i.e., the lightest rod possible for a given Power), which’ll also increase the frequency. The only other correlation
Forum: rodboard 9 years ago
jim spooner
John,
As the Geico commercial says, “Everybody knows that” (Ha).
Seriously, I’m not sure what you’re getting at. Admittedly, I have a short attention span and I’m easily confused (snicker). I’m particularly confused when you say “It seems like there are just too many factors to model and expect anything more than generalities for results.” What results are you referring to? I’ve re-read the pre
Forum: rodboard 9 years ago
jim spooner
As the author of the article points out, the test curve is flawed as far as its intended use, and it has nothing to do with lure weights. There are situations where blanks/rods can be visually analyzed or compared in the curved or flexed condition, but again, nothing to do with lure weight determination. I bought a fixture from Backlash Tools several years ago that makes it easy to do. Before I h
Forum: rodboard 9 years ago
jim spooner
John,
I think the easy answer has to be yes, but have to ask, is this a trick question? By “measurements”, I assume you mean the physical diameter measurement and not load measurement? Can you clarify what you mean by “different loaded path”? I would guess that if the specific points were far enough apart, the intermediate lengths could allow for different tapers, which would affect loading, aff
Forum: rodboard 9 years ago
jim spooner
Bill,
Yes, blanks can be trimmed to change blank characteristics including Power, Action, Lure Weight and Length (obviously), but doing so can adversely affect some characteristics of the blank. Trimming from the tip is especially critical and requires caution. Trying to increase the power of your blank to be able to cast 8 ounce lures would probably require cutting so much off the tip that the
Forum: rodboard 9 years ago
jim spooner
John,
I can woefully attest to what Tom says about 2 rods with the same Power and Action not having the same “feel”. Sometimes close, but not quite the same.
Tom,
I think the key word in all of this is “range”. If a reasonable/practical range can be calculated, the angler can establish the optimum lure weights based on his individual subjectivity or perception. The equation from CCS does tha
Forum: rodboard 9 years ago
jim spooner
Bill,
Not sure I understand your question, but if you’re asking how far the rod will flex with 5 ounces hanging off the tip, the answer would be not very far….nowhere near 1/3 of the length in a static mode. The fast tip would get you the greater flex at the tip. I’ll email you pics of 2 rods with identical powers, but one is fast and the other moderate/slow.
Forum: rodboard 9 years ago
jim spooner
Randolph,
I hope this isn’t some kind of posturing competition…..if so, I concede, although I am a few years older than you and I may have you beat regarding your bamboo pole in VN….I used hand grenades….much more effective (Ha). I apologize if I sound like I’m suggesting what you should or shouldn’t do in your rod building or fishing. Whatever works for you is fine with me. I do appreciate your
Forum: rodboard 9 years ago
jim spooner
That’s fine when the blank rating has already been conveniently provided to you by the manufacturer, but as you know, if the blank length is altered, those numbers are no longer valid and need to be recalculated. Also, what would you do if you should find yourself in possession of a “mystery” blank with no specifications…..wouldn’t you need a way to determine its Power, Action and Lure Range?
A
Forum: rodboard 9 years ago
jim spooner
Bill,
As Tom said, that would only account for static load (dead weight) and wouldn’t take into account the dynamic load when casting. If you have a blank that’s long enough to allow for “adjusting”, you could take a measurement using enough weight (pennies or otherwise) to deflect 1/3 of the length, then calculate using the Table C formula of the CCS to convert the cents to lure weight in ounce
Forum: rodboard 9 years ago
jim spooner
Bill,
Remember the old saying “Happiness is not being smart enough to know what to worry about” (Ha). Although I do know of some unhappy folks that have broken rods trying to throw 2 or 3 oz. Umbrella Rigs or big swimbaits.
Tom,
I know you have the answer, but I also know you’re covered up with the Expo right now and when the dust settles, maybe you can get back to us. I thought I’d post her
Forum: rodboard 9 years ago
jim spooner
Roger,
I guess I’m the opposite…I never worry too much about line weight, I use braid.
Unless you alter blank lengths, the manufacturer’s lure weight ranges are usually adequate and probably don’t require too much thought, however, altering blank lengths not only changes some of the blank’s characteristics of power and action, but the lure weight range as well. While trial and error helps deter
Forum: rodboard 9 years ago
jim spooner
Randolph,
No idea, been building since the mid 70’s. Do you or Roger find my question insolent?
Forum: rodboard 9 years ago
jim spooner
A week or so ago I posted here on RBO asking for clarification of Lure Weight determination using the URRS (http://rodbuilding.org/read.php?2,433155). Since I received no responses, I suspect that for most builders, the lure weight ranges designated by blank manufacturers is sufficient for determining rod use, and recalculating is not necessary. Because I normally trim blank lengths, I do find it
Forum: rodboard 9 years ago
jim spooner
For me, a couple things come to mind. One would be my guide alignment tool. I made it from an old spinning reel. I cut away most of the gear case body and left the foot, stem and the front face portion that has the hole for the rotor. I use this for sight aligning guides on both spinning and casting rods. Aligning guides has always been a challenge for me and this “tool” works great. I tried one
Forum: rodboard 9 years ago
jim spooner
Bill,
I kinda think of lure weight as being dictated by a rod’s Power. Cutting the tip will in fact change the Power (slight increase, assuming the length is maintained) as well as the lure weight capacity, but I generally only make tip cuts to get a specific flex (stiffer) at the tip (i.e., Action), or in some cases where I want to tweak the lure weight range just a bit. Cutting (or adding) fr
Forum: rodboard 9 years ago
jim spooner
With very few exceptions, I cut every blank I build on. Only disadvantage I can think of is mfg warranty, but many advantages. It should go without saying that a cut down blank will lose power (from its uncut length), putting it at risk if overtasked, so its specifications must be recalculated after URRS, CCS or RDA measurements are taken.Never had a failure due to cutting.
Forum: rodboard 9 years ago
jim spooner
Bill,
Since this thread’s subject matter is “Action vs Tip Stiffness” and may not be getting viewed by guys with the expertise that could offer you advice, you may want to post your specific situation in a new post where you might get more suggestions or perhaps someone could recommend a rod that might meet your requirements.
Forum: rodboard 9 years ago
jim spooner
Bill,
Making tip measurements can be a bit risky. A longer blank could be a candidate, but it would have to have greater power initially as it will lose power if you cut it back to your required length. I do this all the time. You say you don’t have a CCS setup, but it’s easy enough to do and the setup doesn’t have to be very sophisticated to get reasonably accurate measurements. It would be the
Forum: rodboard 9 years ago
jim spooner
Roger,
Very well said and I agree with your approach in almost every instance….at least in theory.
I think that Bass anglers tend to lean toward heavier powers…… sometimes for good reason….sometimes not. Maybe Southern waters promote testosterone poisoning (snicker). I did live in Minnesota for ten years and I remember some advice regarding low powered rods from a bass fisherman friend (and tou
Forum: rodboard 9 years ago
jim spooner
Having never used Table 2 (page 19 RodMaker V10 #4 - Universal Rod Rating System/CCS) for determining Lure weights, can someone please clarify for me how it’s used correctly. Is it the ERN of the rod or the TP/Tip Power values that determine the lure weight? Or, is it each of the values of the ERN of the rod, the TP and the PR (2nd column) used to determine the low, nominal and high end respecti
Forum: rodboard 9 years ago
jim spooner
Michael,
In reference to your previous post where you state your preferences for slow action for crankbaits and fast action for spinnerbaits, I’m really curious to know what the power/action ratings (CCS or RDA) are for each of those rods, using the same lure weight. I’d say that your preferences are probably more consistent with conventional wisdom than mine are. Although I use a little differ
Forum: rodboard 9 years ago
jim spooner
Partly responding to Bill's post and partly pondering/pontificating.
Forum: rodboard 9 years ago
jim spooner
Michael,
I assume you’re referring to the crank-baiters. I too have seen what you described and it puzzled me because I never really bought into the argument that a slow action was advantageous with crankbaits. (I made reference to this in my other post (Action vs. Tip Stiffness)). I’ve since made several measurements of (factory) crankbait rods vs. standard (non-crankbait) rods with the same po
Forum: rodboard 9 years ago
jim spooner
Bill,
You may be right about some blank makers underrating blanks. In manufacturing it’s common practice for “safe load” situations, to factor in some amount to the calculated “actual load” weights. It wouldn’t surprise me if they also tend to fudge (engineering term) their “fast” Actions toward the “slow” side to provide a bit of safety and to accommodate for situations like high-sticking. I do
Forum: rodboard 9 years ago
jim spooner
Roger, you missed the point. Why am I not surprised? But you’re right, in those pictures, Action has nothing to do with Power. However, there is a definitely an interrelationship between Power and Action in the way a rod is fished.
Forum: rodboard 9 years ago
jim spooner
Perhaps poor semantics, but: “flex” loosely defined as “soft” or “stiff”.
I.E., A fast Action rod would flex more at the tip as opposed to a slow Action rod (of the same Power) flexing less at the tip.
Forum: rodboard 9 years ago
jim spooner
It’s understood what Action is, but what I’m saying is that it’s unlikely that those two rods would have the same Power.
Forum: rodboard 9 years ago
jim spooner
I occasionally hear (or read posts) where anglers (or rod builders) refer to “slow” (or “moderate”) Action rods as having a “soft” rod tip, or, “fast Action” rods as having a “stiff” tip. To me, the opposite is usually the case. If you have two rods with identical “Powers” and one is fast Action and the other is slow (or moderate) Action, the faster Action rod will be stiffer for a longer (2/3rds
Forum: rodboard |