The first question begs the second...

1. What is the best and safest stripper to remove spar varnish from cane rods?

2. Why did my CP not hold, despite four coats, despite covering the edges, despite despite despite diligent application and drying. I used 1/2 IPA and 1/2 Color Lock to create a solvemt based CP per advice from this board, and had only some minor leakage on the edges of the silk on the first application. Nothing too major - somehow I expected to have to re-do a wrap or two on this, my first stick.

ON THE FIFTH COAT, the edges of the stripping guide leaked and presto, big blotches on the butt section. Even the outer thread of my tipping wraps darkened.

I am tempted to completely undo the wraps and strip the rod and start over.

HELP!!!!!

Sean
If someone on this board gave you advice to use 1/2 IPA and 1/2 color lock, that someone gave you some very bad advice. It is this kind of advice that we would dearly love to eliminate from the rod building world. If this advice were worth paying attention to, it would be on the manufacturers label. Why not start over and follow the instructions from the manufacturer of the product. He just might have the right idea. Get a copy of Rodmaker volume 4 issue 2 and read the very extensive explanation of what makes color preservers tick, and you will be in a position to ignore bad advice in the future.
Ralph

Check your e-mail, Ralph...

Sean I know your frustaed thats just part of Bamboo.. This is why most of the Bamboo builders dont do restorations, and they dont use CP on new rods... I just wrapped a rod 3 times but I think is was a thread problem because I used a cotton swab to wipe a pencil mark off bamboo and I touched the thread with it and it turned the swab a red color... The positive thing about wrapping and doing over is you got to get better.. Thanks Davesrods

Sean;
Use either Safest Stripper or Ctri-Strip to strip varnish from bamboo rods. Your first mistake was in using color preserver at all, the second was using one intended for use with epoxy. Epoxy doesn't have the solvents in it that varnish does and doesn't have the potential to dissolve the color preserver that thinners do. And, As Ralph said, your 3rd mistake was thinning the cp so much. After trying every single commercial color preserver there is(and having had major blotches with every single one of them) I only use Varathane 900 now. It is a fast drying polyurethane that will darken the thread slightly, but still give a cp'ed look. It takes 3 coats, minumum, and be sure to flood the wraps with the first coat.DON'T thin it!!!!!, if it gets thick, throw it out and use fresh. Load the wraps with it until it bleds out from under the guide feet and make sure you get it all the way out to the very last thread, you can always scrape off any that runs out onto the bamboo before you varnish the whole rod. If you varnish the blank first, then be carefull with the Varathane and use as many coats as it takes to finish the wraps out. Your best bet is to just use spar varnish on the whole works and let the wraps go transparent. it is much easier and, to me anyway, looks better.
john

Sean,

Nothing is more frustrating that having a nice wrap job ruined with blotches when the finish is applied. It has only happened to me on a couple of occasions, but it was not a pleasant experience. I can sympathize with you.

I wish the color preserver makers gave better instructions with their product. I also wish that some of them would manufacturer more consistent batches of CP than they seem to do. I personally like the Gudebrod 811 but will admit that it always seems to vary in viscosity from one bottle to the next. Yes, it says to thin with alcohol, but never how much or to what extent.

The article we did in RodMaker is the best information on the subject I am aware of. Sadly, due to the inconsistencies in some products, any rule of never thinning or thinning by a certain percentage will not work 100% of the time. Thus the reason we tried to explain what to shoot for in a CP and how to achieve it.

I think some of the misinformation on thinning agents was created due to the two different types of CP's we have now - the water based acrylics and the urethane/acrylics. The first is thinned with water (distilled preferably) and the later with alcohol. Somebody got their wires crossed when they gave you the info on thinning color lock (water based acrylic) with alcohol. I don't remember it having been posted and if I had seen it would have corrected the information to the best of my abilities.

In the future, I would recommend full strength Color Lock with a nice wet first application. Then a second if you are working with light thread on a dark blank or underwrap. The thread should turn uniformly dark when the first application is applied, then as it dries the thread color should come back up to nearly what it was on the spool. If the product contains the correct ratio of solids to liquid(and it should), it should seal the thread and prevent the finish from penetrating and discoloring your thread.

..............................

I have put 1 coat, full strength Guderod811 and that didnt work I have tried 2 coats and 3 coats, but 4 coats seem to work pretty good I usually have to rewrap 1, or 2 wraps, usually Butt Guide and Hook keeper is what fails.. I am going to have to get some Varathane 900 and try it.. I have also used 2 coats full strength Guderod 840 rod finish and that works also but stil there is always one wrapp.. John is exactly right the CP now days just dont hold up to solvents.. Thanks Davesrods

I agree with John I have been following John channer around and backing him up with his CP answer.

I just did my first bamboo rod and I had to do all the silk wraps over after using a waterbased CP.

I would have used Varathane 900 but did not have any on hand. O'h Did I regret!!

Varathane 900 works very well!! You lose only a wee bit of color and the thread especially silk takes on a nice Semi Transperant sheen. Im no rod building pro actually im very much a newbie but the Varathane product has worked for me on synthetic and silk wraps with no problems.

It does ok as your main wrap finish too! Ive done 3 rods with it so far!

Russ Gooding at Golden Witch stocks Varathane
900 in half pints. It is somewhat hard to find.

Happy wrapping "John"

There is a 50,000 gallon tank of it sitting across the street from me right now. I doubt they'll let me dip any out for rod building purposes however.

.....................................

Tom

Ive tried color lock on silk thread twice now!

I put it on full stength and saturated the thread and let dry. (2 coats)


When I put the varnish on "Blotch city" Varathane 900 works every time!

Have Russ Gooding send you a 1/2 pint or, better yet walk across the street and do some PR work and have flecto corp give you a can of V900!

Give a thanks in the magazine with the name of the Lab or quality manager that gave you the stuff and tell us any obsevations and results.

You should really devote some time and test this product out because of the interest on this board and those who swear by it for its no blotch creed. Do a test with the stuff and post the results.

Sure its not "MADE FOR FISHING RODS" but it sure helps keep folks from having to do whole wrap jobs over!! I learned the hard way by having to do a old bamboo rod over Twice now, not fun!!

I dont fool with commercial CP at all now V 900 does a bang up job on silk or Nylon its virtually fool proof as long as you get good saturation. you may not get perfect off the spool color but its very close and it adds a nice sheen to thread. It also works ok for wraps I have my last 2 rods with V900 wraps.

If Russ Gooding of "Golden Witch" one of the boards sponsers can reccomend the product as a CP for Bamboo restorationists the product should be looked at as having merit as a big problem solver and deserves to be tested and reviewed for the betterment of this community and your readers /folks on this board.

Thanks Tom you have a great site with a fine following and mucho talented people who frequent this place !! Keep up the good stuff!

Happing Wrapping "John"

I know that Tom and others have continually warned against use any type of 'white' CP on silk. I only wish the CP makers would say so on the bottle. I did try Al's CP and it is a white type CP but it was perfect on some Pearsall's silk I tried. What is it? Acrylic or urethane/acrylic type?

I think Varithane is a floor finish if I'm not mistaken. It should be tough.

I just talked to a buddy last night about this cp problem .. Im beginning to think this happens more on silk thread than nylon.. He said he used 2 coats thinned Guderod811 and 4 coats full strength and then use Duraglos and the thread turned out blotchy, this was on a graphite rod.. He also read the Rodmaker Magazine on CP and he said he drenched the wraps and had failure.. I dont have problems with nylon thread as much as I do silk..I guess silk dont soak up the Cp like nylon does.. I know one thing Im going to order some varathane 900 from Russ.. Thanks Davesrods

U40 Color lock states that it is ok for silk thread right on the bottle.

What is the hit and miss rate of the water based CPs on silk? On my rod 9 out of 11 set of wraps got blotched the first time and 7 the second time.

Any way no more Commercial CP for me. I have yet to have the slightest glitch with the V 900.

happy wrapping "john"