I am getting ready to put one of Robert Vennieri's reel seats on a fly rod and need to glue the threaded barrel to the insert. Any special surface prep necessary? Use Rod Bond? This is the first time I have used nickle silver hardware. The seat is stunning and I don't want to screw it up.

Thanks
Jim

This can be a problem as nickel silver can be tough to bond to anything. Rod Bond is fine. Clean both parts with a solvent and then scuff with grey Scotchbrite and glue.

Recently I had contact with a fellow who could not get his NS hardware to bond. Ralph O'Quinn mentioned that you could "prime" the NS surfaces with cyanacrylic (sorry about the spelling - it the super glue type product) and then bond with your epoxy. He said this sometimes works when nothing else will.

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I was at a gun show two weekends ago with my rods. The man at the display next to mine was selling a newer form of "super glue" that he said was formulated originally in Germany. It's supposed to dry in the opposite way from the old Superglues -- rather than drying from air contact, it dries from a lack of air, though it's still a cyanoacrylate (spelling according to the label). He said it's the "next generation super glue, without the pitfalls of the old ones such as very short shelf life. Again, this is all based on what the salesman said.

To make a long story short and get to your question:
I had a REC model CRN cap come off the stabilized buckeye burl insert on one of my custom rods when a man dropped it on the concrete floor there at the show (I thanked him -- good thing it didn't happen on a stream). The salesman next to me apparently saw it as a good chance to proof-test his glue. I let him, figuring I'd pop the cap off when I got home and re-epoxy it properly. He applied barely a few drops of the stuff right on the end of the insert and held the cap in place for a few seconds. It seemed to stick tightly enough, though I'm very slow to trust something new...

When I got home, I did everything I could to break loose the bond short of heating it with a torch. I could not make it budge. I used one of those rubber jar-opener pads to get a grip on it, and I even tapped it agressively with a rubber mallet. I started to worry that I'd damage the blank. The cap is still on there, and I've tried several times since to break it loose.

I don't know what the exact name of this glue is, but maybe someone will -- it's apparently being marketed at displays all over the country. And maybe an expert like O'Quinn can add his insight on the stuff. All I know is that my nickel cap seems to be good and stuck on a stabilized insert, which it obviously wasn't with two-ton epoxy.

Scott
That salesman just didn't do his homework. The cyanoacrylates have ALWAYS cured by excluding air. They have never been air cured. When I first bumped into them back in the 60s, about the only thing they would stick to was your fingers. They did a marvelous job of glueing your fingers together, such as thumb and forefinger. They have improved dramatically over the ensuing years but are still hard to use in our rods, because they must have firm pressure--to exclude air -- they cannot stand any sliding into place--- and they are very poor in water resistance. Glue it together today, go fishing a few times, get it soaked and the first thing you know -- no more bond.

They do make a marvelous primer for epoxies, and sometimes the only ways to bond to nickel silver is by using one of the super glues as a primer, let it air dry for a few hours, then bond with your epoxy. I still do not condone using them as a primary bonding agent on rods until I can see some evidence of improvement in the water resistance characteristics. Anyway they will never be worth a damn for attaching a handle or a reel seat or a butt cap.
Ralph

Scott
That salesman just didn't do his homework. The cyanoacrylates have ALWAYS cured by excluding air. They have never been air cured. When I first bumped into them back in the 60s, about the only thing they would stick to was your fingers. They did a marvelous job of glueing your fingers together, such as thumb and forefinger. They have improved dramatically over the ensuing years but are still hard to use in our rods, because they must have firm pressure--to exclude air -- they cannot stand any sliding into place--- and they are very poor in water resistance. Glue it together today, go fishing a few times, get it soaked and the first thing you know -- no more bond.

They do make a marvelous primer for epoxies, and sometimes the only ways to bond to nickel silver is by using one of the super glues as a primer, let it air dry for a few hours, then bond with your epoxy. I still do not condone using them as a primary bonding agent on rods until I can see some evidence of improvement in the water resistance characteristics. Anyway they will never be worth a damn for attaching a handle or a reel seat or a butt cap.
Ralph

Ralph, what would you suggest as a proper technique for bonding a NS reel seat to a rod using Rod Bond? I'll be building my first two rods using REC NS seats and Rod Bond.

Even with the NS seat, what gets bonded to the rod is usually the wood insert and not the actual hardware. Thus, clean everything and then scuff the blank with Scothbrite and apply the Rod Bond to all mating surfaces. Twist and turn the insert as you slide it into place to ensure good coverage of the epoxy.

If you need to do any shimming, consider spiral wrapping of thread or drywall tape bushings.

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My thought is that the stabilizing process might leave a coating on the surface that prevents the epoxy from reaching the actual wood. I woud sand the area under the band with 120 grit or so to be sure that all of the surface residue is gone.

I love Robert's seats. I have used one with a burl cherry insert. I do not know if it was stabilized. I lightly sanded the insert and the inside of the ring, cleaned it all up, and glued with my regular woodworking epoxy (G-8, from a woodworking supply house, overnight cure, can mix for strength or flexibilty for wood to metal). I have had no problem in 2 years of use, and I regulary dunk the seat when I fish.

Thank you very much for the insights about this particular glue. I am now back to the original problem: getting it off so I can in turn fix the thing right. This is the first cap I've ever had come off a seat -- nickel with stabilized insert or otherwise -- and I'm just thankful it happened in front of me.
Now the guy has bonded it with a glue I can't trust to be water proof, so I still can't sell the rod (and it's a great 6' 10" custom-cut St. Croix stream rod), and I can't get the darn thing off. Is heat a good solution, or some other suggestion?

Thanks,

Scott