Happy Holidays to all.

I'm in the process of setting up my first spiral wrap rod and have several questions about positioning both the stripper guide and the first guide that is 180 degrees from the stripper.

I'm building a GUSA B65H. I've completed the handle assembly and am now doing final guide layout before wrapping. I've initially positioned the stripper guide 17.5" from the top of the trigger seat, based primarily on standard factory rod positioning of stripper guides on 6'6" rods. When I place the blank on my vertical spine finder and bend the top of the blank to 90 degrees while holding the blank vertical, I find that the initial bend in the blank begins only 6" above my stripper. At that point, the bend in the blank is minimal and doesn't start to become more significant until about 13" above the stripper. In other words, most of the bend in the blank begins 13" above the stripper and continues to 90 degrees. My questions are as follows:

1) How far should the stripper be from the reel seat? Can or should it be less than 17.5"?
2) Where should I place the guide that goes180 degree opposite the stripper? Should it be placed right where the blank begins to bend or where the blank begins to have a more pronounced bend?
3) Is there a rule of thumb on the minimum distance between the stripper guide and the 180 degree guide?
4) How many guides should be used to make the 180 degree transition?
5) Should the transition guides be spaced equally throughout the transition?

Thank you in advance for your assistance.

Mark

There are so many ways to do this. None of them are wrong, and all excel in one form or another. I have seen spiral wrapped rods where the transition fro the 0 to 180 degree axis takes place in about 4 or 5 inches. And they work. Casting is not so good as say, the O'Quinn method, but it is usually used on heavy duty rods which are expected to be trolling or fished without much casting.

Many years ago I built all of my live bait rods so that the 180 guide was located just aft of where the rod first flexed when under maximum load. This usually put it at least at the mid-point, or even a bit farther back, on the rod. The transition was made by going from the 0 to 60 to 120 to 180 axis's. This was all done in a span of 14 or 15 inches. My idea at the time was that the section of the rod that was fully bent under a heavy load would already have all the guides at 180 degrees.

The rods worked, and continue to work beautifully. They actually cast pretty well, although they are not used for that. This is only one method. I am sure others will add their favorite spacings and methods to this thread shortly.

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Here's some background reading when you have a moment.

[www.sport-fish-info.com]

[www.sport-fish-info.com]

[www.sport-fish-info.com]


The B65H is a really fun rod for fishing 40# line. Use 8 guides.
HNSG 20, 16, 12, 10, 8, 8, 8, 8
UST 8-8

I use left rotation. Stripper should be about 20" from the reel face so you don't get too much bunching.

Method #1
Transition in 4 guides emphasizing casting
11:00, 9:00, 7:30, 6:30

Method #2
Transition in 3 guides emphasizing fighting
11:00, 7:30, 6:30

Use standard spacing and the above rotation as a start. You need to run line tests, check for line rubbing, severe angles, the line hitting the 3 or 9 position on the guide ring. Adjust fore or aft or rotation. Once you think you've got it, take it for a test cast. Tweak, tweak, tweak.

When using method #2, put the line all the way to the right, load the rod and check for line rub. You're looking for maybe 1/8 inch clearance off the blank. #2 guide may need to be closer to 8:00. Check it.

Tom and Sang,

Thank you for your replies. Reading through all of the archived material on the spiral wrap was informative while somewhat overwhelming at the same time. It's apparent, as Tom mentioned, that there are many ways to accomplish a spiral wrap. For someone with no experience with a spiral wrapped rod, it's the variety of approaches that makes it challenging.

Sang - I have a feeling your proposed layout is for a BSW65H which is rated for 20-40# line. I'm building the B65H which is rated for 8-25# line. Still your suggestions are very helpful, especially with respect to the two methods you offer.

Thanks again,

Mark

Oops, I'm so into the saltwater stuff. Of course you're right, the B65H and not the SW65H.

A lot of the same knowledge applies. I'd used a mix of the TLNSGs and then TLSGs, with the Forhan locking wrap on the single footers. The TPST for 17# and up, or the TLST for 15# and below.

Start the 1st guide at 20" from the reel face.

Use 4 guides for the transition.

As long as you're meticulous about testing, it's really hard to go wrong. Could you do it better if you had more experience? Of course. But you have to start somewhere.

This subject is very interesting to me. Thank you for the specifics.

Would you guys say that a spiral wrapped rod casts as well as a standard one? Or is most of the benefit in fish-fighting?

TH

Fish fighting is 100 times better, casting is about the same. It's a better system and you just have to get used to the looks.

The 11 and 9 I get but where do you get the :30 on the 7 and 6?

Mark,
There is quite a bit on this site, as already mentioned. There is no 'wrong' way, but there are optimal ways for doing your spiral. If it could be summed up in one word, I would use "Stability" as the best way to describe what to expect with a spiral wrap. From all you've heard about better fish fighting to less twisting/torquing is for sure, but with proper line transition the rod can be a good casting performer.

In answer to your questions, the butt guide sounds about right at 17.5" if the 90 bend of the rod determines this to be the best position. I would not want to get much closer to the reel face. A lot of this is previoulsy explained, and with Ralp O'Quinn's modifications this minimum is best described.

As to 'how many' guides to use? and the distances between the guides? This again is determined by the best line flow through the guides as best determined by tweaking the angles and distances for each blank. Again, many methods might work, but if optimum is your goal it may mean more or less guides than a predetermined number, but 4 might sound about right in the transition on a 6'6" rod. Don't skimp on the 180 degree tip guides for best stress distribution. It may take as few as a total of 7 guides, but it may take 9 or more? This is the tweaking part and if you also want to keep within a concept guide system. Now there is Don Mortons newer method described for guide placement by a quick easy method of calculation with a grid device. In the end, field testing will let you know if what you were after is achieved.

Rich
Solyrich Custom Rods
Richard's Rod & Reel

If 6:00 is 180 degrees, then 6:30 would be 195 degrees, 7:00 would be 210 degrees and so on.

Rather than a rigid radial pattern, say 12:00, 10:00, 8:00 and 6:00, I like to soften the approach to vertical. Looking at the line as it comes off the reel, the first guide, offset at 11:00 deflects the line when looking down at the rod, but when looking at it from the side, the line should be fairly straight, from above the blank to under it. Next guide is at 9:00 and continues the sideways deflection. Now using the next two guides, bring the line back under the blank but avoid sharp angles if possible. I've found a 7:30ish and then a 6:30ish guide then the true 6:00 guides provides a nice smooth landing for the line underneath. You'll want to fine tune the guides, but don't get so stuck on actual radial placements. You want the line to flow smoothly, and you want the line to not hit the 3 or 9 position on any guide ring under load, so this is going to require some tweaking of the guides.

Remember, in a spiral wrap, nothing is written in stone. Fun, eh?

The actual under guides on the tip section, after the transition, will benefit greatly from Don Morton's equal angle placement as opposed to canned generic directions. His method allows you to properly place those guides where the blank needs them.

Hello all,

I'd like to thank everyone for their assistance. I completed my first spiral wrapped rod and was even able to test it out. I caught a load of small stripers on it and then lucked into about a 33" fish in heavy current. The benefit of the spiral wrap was obvious. My initial field testing leads me to believe that the casting performance was more than adequate, sensitivity equal to or better than traditional setup, and fish fighting ability was far superior. In short, I'm quite happy with the end product and will continue to experiment with the spiral wrap.

Thanks again, Mark