First, you can't SEE the installation of what ever type of bushing is used so you have no idea if it was installed correctly. An improperly installed block bushing is no better than an improperly installed bushing of another material.

Second, if the rod builder has a good name, references and reputation and tells you that he uses tape bushings would you still buy from him?

Most good rod builders have their own methods for accomplishing a task that they have proven to themselves to work for them. You can also be sure that the customer will tell you if you have screwed up. A builder than screws up enough won't be selling many rods.

The techniques that we all use to build rods are usually based on our own experience and comfort level with the technique. I am not comfortable with block bushings and I only use them if the customer requests them and I am comfortable using them. If the customer does not want one of my rods because I use tape and I don't feel comfortable using blocks for THAT rod, so be it and he can go to a builder that doesn't. It's very simple.

Until I see evidence derived from destructive test that a tape bushing doesn't equal a graphite bushing, I will continue to use tape. In fact, I will try to get time during the down time in the next couple of months to come up with some type of test that I can try for myself.

This is like many other topics that we as rod builders will differ on forever. No different than the subjects of locking wraps, spiral wraps, best finish, best CP, etc. etc. Use the method that you are comfortable with based on the information that you have tried, not just heard.

If anyone out there knows how to perform a suitable objective structural test please let me know. I've been looking for a suitable method for many years. I proved years ago that the paste epoxy in a reel seat is far superior to liquid epoxy, because the paste will stay where you put it, while the liquid has a mind of its own. What I once tried didn't pan out so good. I took three old obsolete metal reel seats with about a .750 ID and found a very heavy wall piece of graphite with about a .500 OD. I bonded on one seat with masking tape spacer, one with dry wall tape and one with a nice new graphite foam bushing. The masking tape and the dry wall tape had complete coverage of adhesive for the entire cavity while the foam bushing was bonded only on both surfaces of the bushing. I put the rod into a pipe vice and attempted to twist off the seats with a pipe wrench. Bad approach. All I managed to do was mangle the three bonded seats and didn't prove anything other than all three were bonded on pretty good. I next got three graphite reel seats with a trigger which I figured would give me twisting leverage. I figured good. I used a small chain tong, and tried the same twisting -shearing as with the metal seats. I couldn't keep the graphite piece I was using for the rod base, from twisting in the vice and finally split it. They all had about the same force applied to them --- once again, nothing proved. I haven't bothered to follow it up any further but I did come to some conclusions along the way-- to whit.
I have seen hundreds of failed factory reel seats, and without any exceptions all had masking tape as the bushing. Without any exceptions ALL were bonded with a LIQUID epoxy. Without any exceptions liquid epoxy covered usually about 25% of the bondable area and never more than 50%. These seats didn't fail because they were using masking tape, they failed because of very poor technique in the bonding department. The usage of masking tape in the installation of a reel seat is just as suitable as the usage of dry wall tape or graphite bushing IF IF IF IF IF one recognizes the paramenters involved in dealing with the different resources. Masking tape is not a BUSHING it is a SPACER and must be utilized as such. Spacers do not carry any loads of any kind. Graphite foam is a BUSHING. Bushing's are intended to carry loads, especially shear loads. IF used properly with the proper processing sequence, dry wall tape is a bushing. When using masking tape -- as a spacer -- it is imperative that the tape be completely encapsulated with the bonding agent. All you can do with a liquid adhesive is coat it before assembly, and after assembly, the liquid all runs off the tape leaving it open to the elements. It is also imperative when using ;masking tape that no load of any magnitude be transmitted to the spacer. This spacer is merely a tool to center the seat on the blank. It is supposed to be excess baggage for the life of the rod after assembly of the seat. This means that the entire space between the inside of the reel seat and the surface of the rod must be completely filled with the bonding agent, which must also completely encapsulate the spacer.. There you have the reasoning and whyfore of the developement of RodBond. If a liquid adhesive could possibly perform as adequately, rest assured the folks at U-40 would be marketing a liquid adhesive. In order to whomp up a batch of rodbond takes a strong back and a weak mind --- if we were marketing a liquid, all we would have to do is pump it out of a drum. Who out there doing repair work hasn't had a rod with a loose reel seat presented to them and asked to fix the reel seat. This is invariably on some $19.95 Wal Mart special and theres no way you are going to remove the reel seat and most of the handle and do it right. I merely drill a 1/8 hole in each end of the seat on opposite sides, fill one of my 10cc syringes with rodbond, and inject it in one end until it comes out the other end. I've done this to maybe a hundred or so cheap seats and have never had one come back for another shot. You couldn't do this with a liquid adhesive, and you couldn't do it with most of the stiff, non-wetting paste epoxies out there that were not designed for rodbuilding.
Graphite foam arbors, are intended to act as true bushings. They are intended to carry the entire load exerted on the reel. It is not necessary to fill the area between bushings although I can not see any harm done if one prefers to do so. Since the bushing is carrying the entire load, it is imperative that a sound bond be established on both sides of the bushing --something that is relatively easy to accomplish as they are simple to fit and are sufficiently malleable to take up tolerances, but once bonded into place you have a tough rigid assembly.
I sure wish someone out there could show me how to conduct a true unbiased, objective structural test that would take some of the guess work out of these methods. I have a gut feeling that when properly performed -- neither the bushing nor the spacer method has any advantage over the other. Provided you use the proper adhesive on both of them.
Ralph

After readingg all threads. I did not notice anybody talking about sensitivity of tape vs. graphite arbors. I currently use both methods. If I am building a jig or tube rod, something that the customer needs the sensitvity I will use graphite arbors. If I am building a rod for topwater fishing, bobber fishing I will use tape. Neither have falled . "YET". Was wandering if anybody has an comments on sensitvity between the two?
Jeff Murray

Last night I wrote some criteria for testing but you your tests have already met the criteria. Not even going to bother now. It all boils down to PREPARATION AND INSTALLATIION, PERIOD. Your test was a twisting motion test which is the action that will cause the seat to rotate (discounting the various differences in coefficients of expansion due to temperature). If the seat was properly installed, you could have twisted the blank into shreds before the seat would slip.

The surfaces must be properly prepared. You have to rough up the blank surface and the seat surface to give the epoxy something to bite into. You also have to clean the surfaces with alcohol to remove anything that would be a bond breaker. I use the edge of a file on the blank and make lengthwise scratches under the grip and seat areas. I then make the same scratches inside the seat.

I do however vary my usage of paste and liquid. I use the liquid when I have a large space between the blank and seat on rods that don't need full length coverage. I use the paste when I on boat rod seats and Unibutt ferrules when I want a full length bond.

I have always had good experience with the Flexcoat epoxy glue. You can time the setup and apply it at the exact point you want in the curing process. The reason I like the liquid(semi-liquid when I apply it) is that it will find all the cracks and crevices that paste will not. I first coat the tape on both sides and the top. As I slide the seat over the tape, the excess epoxy rolls over into the space between the tape sections. I rotate the rod just enough to keep the glue from dripping off and at the same time apply more glue to the space between the tape sections. I continue the process until the seat is set at the rear grip. I clean the mess up with alcohol and stand the rod upright until the curing is complete. This process stops water from getting in the rear of the seat. The liquid has flowed to the top of the tape sections and essentially created an epoxy bushing that monolithically bonds the blank, tape and seat together. When I install the fore grip, the excess epoxy rolls under the space in front end of the seat which provides the front end water seal. The is absolutely no way that water can enter the seat.

I use U40 paste when I want to completely fill the space under boat rod seats. I essentially create a full length bushing. In this case the weight of the expoxy is irrellevent. I also use the paste when I install Unibutt ferrules that don't fit tightly and I again need the full coverage to resist compression.

I do my repairs as you do but I do use liquid instead of paste. The key is to stand the rod up so that the liquid doesn't flow to the bottom. After you inject the liquid, put a piece of masking tape over the sprue holes to stop the epoxy from leaking out. Sometimes you can also push the seat away from the grips enough to get epoxy in front and in the rear of the seat at the grips. I used this method one time on a loose seat that had no space under it to shoot epoxy. I was able to push the seat about an 1/8" front and back. I put liquid in the gaps, and then pushed the grips tight back to the seat. The rod is still in use today.

I think that your test was objective, not subjective and you proved to yourself what will and won't work. You can't ask for any more than that.


Jeff, it is very easy to test your sensitivity theory. Build one rod with tape and one rod with bushings. Make sure you remember which has which method. Without telling them which is which, let several people fish with it and then come back and tell you which is more sensitive.

It is worth mentioning that when preparing surfaces for bonding you do not want to go overboard with any roughening. The epoxy does not need to bite into deep scratches and grooves which can damage a thin walled blank along with actually weakening the bond.

This information was presented in a recent issue of RodMaker but I am aware that much of what we research and print there doesn't actually get read. So, to get the strongest and most secure bond - thouroughly clean all mating surfaces then scour them with a grey 3M Scotchbrite pad. You want to knock the sheen or shine off the surfaces, but that is all that is required if you are using a good adhesive that wets the surface properly. This sequence will give you the strongest bond. Not to say other methods won't provide adequate strength for what we are doing, but this is the strongest way.

It is also important to coat all the mating surfaces with your adhesive. Coating only one surface and then sliding the parts together usually results in epoxy getting pushed off one surface and never making contact with the other. Use care in this area and make sure all surfaces are coated. Twist, spin, remove and reinstall. Use plenty of adhesive in the right places and rectify yourself to having to do some clean up.

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That's basically what I/we wanted to hear. Care must be taken to assure the bonding agent is in place sufficiently to perform.

Lotta words, but I believe you got the point across. Seems your testing methods are sufficient to drive the message home for practical purposes.

Rich