I am building a rod to be used for forward facing sonar in bass fishing using fairly light baits.

When bass fishermen refer to a rod having a soft tip do they mean fast, extra fast or moderate? My research into this has many guys saying they prefer a “soft tip”.


Which blank and manufacturer would you recommend for a FFS technique? Would your recommendation differ between BFS and spinning?

For me personally, and this is just my opinion ... I consider the "tip" of a rod to be about 16 - 24" of rod length. That variance is based on the length of the rod itself. The shorter the rod, the less of its' length I would consider the tip. Soft of course, means that the tip flexes more easily. A drop shot blank, would have a soft tip, and drop shot blanks are generally considered as having extra fast actions.

Action is where the blank shows its' initial flex. And for me personally, visually identifying where the blank initially flexes is difficult to discern on lighter power rods, than it is higher power rods. On a lighter power rod you may think that it has an extra fast action, when in fact it may have a fast or moderate fast, or moderate action.

There are several factory rods that are advertised as being designed for "strolling" which is what they're calling the technique of using FFS to target pretty much, suspended fish. I know NFC offers a "mid strolling" blank. Personally, and while I just purchased a FFS unit for my boat, I have not tried the technique, but I've got to think a blank more suited for either a drop shot rig, or a Ned rig, would be the type of blank you're looking for.

I would definitely think a longer blank that will aid in casting distance would be very beneficial.

My Son is really good at the FFS minnow shaking technique and I have done it quite a bit as well. With this technique you are shaking the rod tip (pretty vigorously) to impart some action on your jig/minnow as you retrieve it. Yes, a soft tip is needed but you would definitely want to have a fast to extra fast action on the rod in my opinion. Never tried it, but with a moderate action you'd have to work a lot harder to get the tip shaking going and then I feel like with moderate action it might impart too much action on the jig/minnow and it wouldn't look real.

I've built several rods that we have successfully used for this technique. I'll give you 4 of my favorites:

Rainshadow Eternity ETES 72M. The CCS Numbers on it: IP=465, AA=77
This was probably my favorite but just by a smidge. Does a real nice job with that technique but unfortunately I broke the rod while my son and I were both casting at the same time and was a casualty of the backcast. Maybe that is why I like it better is because I no longer have it... :). Anyhow, it did a nice job with this technique.

NFC Xray MB-733. CCS numbers: IP=499, AA=78
Pretty similar to the Rainshadow mentioned above. Works well.

Pointblank 701 MLXF. CCS Numbers: IP=556, AA=78
A bit shorter and a bit more power than the others. This one also works well and if the fish are active and I'm using a bit heavier line I can quickly get them into the boat.

And, on occasion, if we are throwing a really light weight bait on very light line (like 10# braid to 4# flouro) we have used the NFC Xray DS-721. CCS Numbers: IP=266, AA=76
It casts and works a really light bait pretty well and protects the lighter line well. Definitely can't horse fish with this rod but with the lighter stuff it works well.

I built all four of these as spinning rods. I did build the Rainshadow Eternity ETES 72ML as a casting setup and really like it for light crank baits and swimbaits. Haven't really tried to shake a minnow on it primarily because I just favor a spinning rod for this technique.

The nice thing about all four of the blanks mentioned above is they are pretty versatile to be used for other spinning techniques
as well. They all work well on bottom techniques when sensitivity plays a bigger part (don't want to go down the sensitivity rabbit hole too much..).

I will say that if you are strictly going to use the rod for the FFS minnow shaking technique you probably wouldn't need to get the highest modulus, most sensitive blank in the world. You could save a bit of money on a lower modulus blank with similar CCS values and probably do just fine. After all, you are basically watching the bait as you retrieve it and you can typically see when a fish hits it so sensitivity is not the most important attribute. IMO most important is how well (and easily) you can work the bait.

Hope this helps

David Baylor Wrote:
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> There are several factory rods that are advertised
> as being designed for "strolling" which is what
> they're calling the technique of using FFS to
> target pretty much, suspended fish.
>

David - trust me when I say this as I have seen it a ton watching my kid do the minnow shaking thing. It is an extremely good technique to use when fish are sitting directly on the bottom. IMO that is what makes the people who are really good at scoping special is that they can distinguish fish from rocks/stumps/etc. sitting on the bottom. Many time I have watched my kid while retrieving a minnow 5-10 feet above the bottom and watched a fish shoot up and nail the minnow (I've done it occasionally but my kid is much better with the scope). A lot of times you can throw a drop shot or ned rig on the same fish and not even get a nibble. So, don't sleep on the technique for bottom fish.

Here in Ohio I've seen both Smallmouth and Largemouth act this way and when we travelled south sometimes Spots will do the same thing.

Hey Kevin, let's get a replacement for that RX10 in your hands asap. We have ETES72M in stock. Just start a no-fault replacement ticket here: [batsonenterprises.com], and we can likely ship today or Monday. Thanks

-The Batson TEAM
BatsonEnterprises.com

Rick,

There is probably no single definition of what a soft tip means. Since when have fisher-people ever agreed on everything? However, to me, it means a Fast or Extra Fast action (or AA numbers above 75 in CCS terms). The tip section is what flexes first when a bit of load is applied.

It is the "softness" that allows the tip to load and cast lighter baits (1/8 to 5/16 oz.), easier, IME.

I'm not sure how familiar you are with the CCS tests, but am including my numbers to help you compare one rod with another. Very useful and easy tool to use.

I have been on an NFC kick for quite awhile now. Sign up with them for alerts to their sales and promotional deals - quite a value!

One blank I really like is the NFC SJ 703 X-Ray C6O2. I built both mine spinning with a K-R Concept guide layout. Borderline Fast/XF tip with an AA of 75 degrees; and IP = 345 grams to load or bend the blank 1/3rd its length.
For BFS, I throw an NFC DS 721 X-Ray. AA = 76 and IP in the 270 gram range. Paired with a Curado BFS reel and #6 fluoro line - I'd say an 1/8 oz. is its low end for long and accurate casts for me.

I have also loved the XF tapers on many St. Croix rods (Rod Geeks). A great one for me is the 4C68MXF. You might look at a Carbon 3 version from the Geeks. AA = 78 and IP = 500 gram range.
Also, SC's 69MLXF is a dandy. AA = 76.5 and IP = 360 gram range.

With FFS techniques I think open water and suspending fish. I like to make long casts to get my bait to the depth I want and not spook suspending fish. I can cast light baits (jigs, spies, and smaller jerk baits) with a spinning rod and light line further than with a caster at my present skill level. Some huck A-Rigs and 1.5 oz.+ Gliders with FFS, too - and that is a whole different class of rod.

You'll figure it out. Keep coming back!

Les

Geoff Staples Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey Kevin, let's get a replacement for that RX10
> in your hands asap. We have ETES72M in stock. Just
> start a no-fault replacement ticket here:
> [batsonenterprises.com]
> ment, and we can likely ship today or Monday.
> Thanks

Geoff thanks for the above. For those folks on the forum looking for great customer service, what more can you say when a company treats you like this! The folks at Batson are great!

As I explained to you in a private email, I just don't feel right about submitting this for a replacement. The primary reason is that the awesome folks at Batson had sent me that blank for free as a thank you for the upkeep of the CCS Spreadsheet at: [docs.google.com]

I do plan to purchase a new replacement ETES 72 M from a Batson supplier because it is an awesome blank for minnow shaking and other spinning techniques.

Again, kudos to the folks at Batson for great products and customer service! Keep up the great work!

Sorry to OP for the sidetrack from the original question.

Kevin, I had no idea you were in Ohio. I am as well. Curious as to what part of the state you're in?

I'm up in the northeast. My primary lakes where I can use the gas motor are Mosquito, Berlin, and Milton. Oh, and occasionally, the Portage Lakes. I fish M. J. Kirwan (West Branch) but it's been IMO, over run with toothy critters. They were fun to catch at first, but I've caught more than enough of them, that now they're just a nuisance. So I don't fish it much anymore. There are a few electric motor only lakes near by. Mogadore, Nimisilla, and Deer Creek near Alliance that I fish. But those are pretty much it these days. Although I do go up to Erie in the spring a couple of times a year.

It does make sense what you're saying about fish coming up off the bottom to hit a bait, so I will definitely be giving it a try. And I love that you mentioned the MB 733 X ray blank as working well for the technique. I've got a rod built on that blank with an XO skeleton grip. Awesome shaky head rod. Gonna have to give it a shot with the strolling technique.

As far as the FFS unit I have. It's the new Eagle Eye 9 Live. I just couldn't see investing the $3,000 + in the big boy units. And not knowing what the big boy units actually look like standing on the deck of the boat, I gotta say, I am pretty dang impressed with this Eagle Eye 9. I have the transducer mounted on a separate pole mount, and am still trying to dial in where I need to cast to have the bait fall on what I'm seeing on the screen. Super cool watching fish react to your bait though. I can see why the pros keep their eyes glued to the screen.

And my apologies as well for possibly side tracking the OPs thread.

David Baylor Wrote:
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> Kevin, I had no idea you were in Ohio. I am as
> well. Curious as to what part of the state you're
> in?
>

I'm just north of Columbus in Central Ohio. Fairly close to four different lakes in north central Ohio and definitely try to get upto Erie some as well. Got to travel around a good bit while my son was doing High School Fishing and hit some other areas around the state including Mosquito a few times and even lucky enough to do a few road trips down south.

Kevin, ahh ok. I've fished Alum Creek a time or two many years ago when all I had was a little 12' aluminum with a 10 hp motor. Didn't get to explore it much, but I made an awesome map of it by going to the Kent State map library and pulling up USGS maps of the land before it was impounded. Appears to have all kinds of good structure in the form of road beds n such. And I've read that the smallmouth fishing can be really good. Heard of some real bruisers coming from there.

Fished a state championship tournament for a circuit I fish at Rocky Fork a few years ago, and have fished 3 or 4 bass tournaments on Clearfork over the years. I really enjoyed fishing Clearfork. Although it fishes pretty small when you have 40 - 50 bass boats on it. Pleasant Hill has been on my radar for the last couple of years. Just haven't gotten down there yet. I plan on fixing that next year though. Supposed to be a really good smallmouth lake.

Anyhow, thanks for sharing.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2024 06:01AM by Jay Dubay.

Jay, what do they mean by "xtra sensitive"? How does it relate to Mod., Fast, Xfast? Are they faster than Xfast? I think they confuse things by jumping from actual measurements into the sensitivity thing. Thought you might know.

I think the softest tip to power rod I have ever built was on the 5S76MLXF blank. It is indeed a sensitive rod.