I'm relatively new to rod building and I'm in the process of selecting some guides for a NFC GammaBeta 9', 9wt fly rod build.

I don't have a lot of experience so I was planning to use the Flex Coat size recommendations. Which are: Tip, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4, 5, 16mm stripper, 20mm stripper.

I've seen other size recommendations like Epic which have smaller guide recommendations.

Just wondering if any of you could share your guide size recommendations for a 9 wt. fly rod.

Thanks!

Hi Ed, I can’t answer your question exactly but I’m in a similar situation so I figure I would add to your post with some of my own questions (I hope you don’t take this as highjacking your thread). Looking to get components for the NFC GammaBeta 8wt though. From my research on this forum and others it seems like a common recommendation as long as larger knots aren’t needing to be passed is 16, 12 or 10, then size 2 or 3 (x8 or 9) snake guides the rest of the way. I am planning to get the recoil snake guides in the nickel titanium for salt water use.

My questions are:
- What criteria should I be thinking about when choosing between size 2 and 3 snake guides? I really don’t have much experience with an 8 wt. I will be fishing for redfish in the marsh or bass in a pond.
- Which tip top should I get? Moderately priced
- Are Recoil double foot 16 and 10 casting guides good for this application?

IMHO there is no need for a stripper size 20. A size 16 stripper guide is sufficient.

For an 8 weight I like a second guide (technically not a stripper but made of the same brand and type with ceramic insert) of size 12. You can go to one double foot snake of 5 and then run all size 2 after that, or you can taper, if you like the aesthetics. Tapering of running guides provides no real functional benefit, but some like the aesthetics.

So I would say: 16, 12, one snake running guide size 5, all running guides in size 2
or: 16, 12, 5, 4, 3 and the rest all 2's
or 16, 12, 5, 4 and the rest all 3's if you like the look of larger guides

REC snake guides are very pliable and on unsanded rod blanks are a bit harder to wrap as they tend to move around a bit due to their pliability, so you have to be careful to tape or band them pretty tightly to the blank and get the first few wraps up the foot secured well. You will need to prep them a bit.

A guide or tip top only needs to be large enough to pass through the line to leader transition knot or loop.

Many top rod makers prefer using smaller guides. The smallest I would go on a 8 or 9 wt fly blank is a 2.

I built a 9 foot 8 wt NFC LMX with 16, 12, 5, 4, 3 and the rest all 2s. Looks good and performs well. All running guides were Recoil double foot snake.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2024 03:42PM by david taylor.

I found that running the same size single foot guides as double foots gave me line issues, at any connections, the way the connections hit the guides changes from dead on to an angle depending on the guide type. I would try 16, 12, 4s to the tip, a #4 SF guides, #4 will have a similar ID to your #12 guide. Sage and others suggest going up 2 sizes if using SF guides.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2024 05:48PM by Spencer Phipps.

Will Bedell Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Ed, I can’t answer your question exactly but
> I’m in a similar situation so I figure I would
> add to your post with some of my own questions (I
> hope you don’t take this as highjacking your
> thread). Looking to get components for the NFC
> GammaBeta 8wt though. From my research on this
> forum and others it seems like a common
> recommendation as long as larger knots aren’t
> needing to be passed is 16, 12 or 10, then size 2
> or 3 (x8 or 9) snake guides the rest of the way. I
> am planning to get the recoil snake guides in the
> nickel titanium for salt water use.
>

> My questions are:
> - What criteria should I be thinking about when
> choosing between size 2 and 3 snake guides? I
> really don’t have much experience with an 8 wt.
> I will be fishing for redfish in the marsh or bass
> in a pond.
> - Which tip top should I get? Moderately priced
> - Are Recoil double foot 16 and 10 casting guides
> good for this application?

No problem. I'm glad you joined the discussion. I've learned a lot from these replies.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2024 06:48AM by Ed Arnaldo.

david taylor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> IMHO there is no need for a stripper size 20. A
> size 16 stripper guide is sufficient.
>
> For an 8 weight I like a second guide (technically
> not a stripper but made of the same brand and type
> with ceramic insert) of size 10. You can go to
> one double foot snake of 5 and then run all size 2
> after that, or you can taper, if you like the
> aesthetics. Tapering of running guides provides
> no real functional benefit, but some like the
> aesthetics.
>
> So I would say: 16, 12, one snake running guide
> size 5, all running guides in size 2
> or: 16, 12, 5, 4, 3 and the rest all 2's
> or 16, 12, 5, 4 and the rest all 3's if you like
> the look of larger guides
>
> REC snake guides are very pliable and on unsanded
> rod blanks are a bit harder to wrap as they tend
> to move around a bit due to their pliability, so
> you have to be careful to tape or band them pretty
> tightly to the blank and get the first few wraps
> up the foot secured well. You will need to prep
> them a bit.
>
> A guide or tip top only needs to be large enough
> to pass through the line to leader transition knot
> or loop.
>
> Many top rod makers prefer using smaller guides.
> The smallest I would go on a 8 or 9 wt fly blank
> is a 2.
>
> I built a 9 foot 8 wt NFC LMX with 16, 12, 5, 4, 3
> and the rest all 2s. Looks good and performs
> well. All running guides were Recoil double foot
> snake.

David,

Thanks for the response and the guide size recommendations. In regards to "prepping" the snake guides, do you mean filing/sanding the feet of the guides prior to mounting? Is that necessary to insure a good fit?

Ed,

(Not speaking for David)

The goal of prepping a guide is to create a smooth ramp for thread transition from blank to guide. Many times, the tip of the foot is a little thick and creates a tiny step the thread must traverse. Prepping/filing is only necessary if the thread has a problem moving from the blank up onto the guide foot. Larger guides tend to need prepping more than the smallest guides in my experience.

After filing, I like to use wet/dry sandpaper (800 grit) to dull any sharp edges. I also make sure the bottom of the foot is smooth so it does not damage the bare blank.

Les Cline Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ed,
>
> (Not speaking for David)
>
> The goal of prepping a guide is to create a smooth
> ramp for thread transition from blank to guide.
> Many times, the tip of the foot is a little thick
> and creates a tiny step the thread must traverse.
> Prepping/filing is only necessary if the thread
> has a problem moving from the blank up onto the
> guide foot. Larger guides tend to need prepping
> more than the smallest guides in my experience.
>
> After filing, I like to use wet/dry sandpaper (800
> grit) to dull any sharp edges. I also make sure
> the bottom of the foot is smooth so it does not
> damage the bare blank.

Thanks for responding Les. That was helpful. When sanding these guides is there a risk of removing the protective finish particularly when building a saltwater rod?

Spencer Phipps Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
"...Sage and others suggest going up 2
sizes if using SF guides."

Sorry Spence...I don't think I understand that statement. They suggest going up 2 sizes from what if using SF guides?

A few thoughts and/or answers:

1) Yes, for prepping I mean grinding, stoning or sanding the guide feet to ensure a smooth wrapping thread transition up the guide foot.
2) Prepping can remove some finish from a guide foot, which is apparent if you use a guide with PVD or other colored finish. If that is the case, get a magic marker or Sharpie of similar color to the guide and color over the prepped area.
3) I cannot recall if Recoil guides are a consistent material or have a coating, but I think I did not need to color treat mine after prepping.
4) I would not use single foot running guides on a 9 wt rod. I use single foot in only 6wt or lower rods. In rods on which I use single foot running guides, I upsize the guides typically one size above manufacturer's guidance. It is true that Sage used to say upsize by two sizes for single foot vs double foot.. Any time I use single foot guides I use a locking wrap.
5) Some find that Recoil guides will produce a slight harmonic with certain lines or with lines that are a bit dirty. I have found this to be true. Some contend that harder chrome guides will shoot line slightly better. My rod with Recoil guides performs just fine. If there were a difference, I think you would have to be a very good caster to determine that.
6) Salt is an enemy of all guides. Clean or rinse your rod and reel after each outing in the salt.

For an interesting perspective on guides, visit the Stickman rod site and read Akos's blog on guides: [stickmanrods.com]

Ernie, Sage recommends using 2 sizes larger SF then the DF guides they use on their rods, they use Snake Brand by the way, as does Edge Rods.

david taylor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A few thoughts and/or answers:
>
> 1) Yes, for prepping I mean grinding, stoning or
> sanding the guide feet to ensure a smooth wrapping
> thread transition up the guide foot.
> 2) Prepping can remove some finish from a guide
> foot, which is apparent if you use a guide with
> PVD or other colored finish. If that is the case,
> get a magic marker or Sharpie of similar color to
> the guide and color over the prepped area.
> 3) I cannot recall if Recoil guides are a
> consistent material or have a coating, but I think
> I did not need to color treat mine after
> prepping.
> 4) I would not use single foot running guides on a
> 9 wt rod. I use single foot in only 6wt or lower
> rods. In rods on which I use single foot running
> guides, I upsize the guides typically one size
> above manufacturer's guidance. It is true that
> Sage used to say upsize by two sizes for single
> foot vs double foot.. Any time I use single foot
> guides I use a locking wrap.
> 5) Some find that Recoil guides will produce a
> slight harmonic with certain lines or with lines
> that are a bit dirty. I have found this to be
> true. Some contend that harder chrome guides will
> shoot line slightly better. My rod with Recoil
> guides performs just fine. If there were a
> difference, I think you would have to be a very
> good caster to determine that.
> 6) Salt is an enemy of all guides. Clean or rinse
> your rod and reel after each outing in the salt.
>
> For an interesting perspective on guides, visit
> the Stickman rod site and read Akos's blog on
> guides:
> [stickmanrods.com]

David,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and advice! I sincerely appreciate it.

Ed