Hi all, I see many comments that the c602 MB725 is great for light weights, many seem to agree it’s something like a medium and suited up to about 3/8 0z.

Haven’t seen much feedback on the c602 SJ764, but I’ve seen it’s Ern is 21 and puts the ip about 614g with an AA of 70, and rated 1/4-1oz on NFC site. The CCS data I I see for the MB725 between 668-712g AA 75 and it’s rated 3/16-3/4 on NFC site.

This is confusing how the numbers seem contradictory.

Has anybody handled both of these blanks and can share how the compare in real life?

Essentially I’m thinking of grabbing 1 c602 blank to try, can you compare any of them to X-ray SJ736 or X-ray Mb764?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated

Building rods in MA, Building the community around the world

El, I have two rods built on the MB 725 C602, and two built on SJ 736 X rays. First I would say that the MB 725 is not a medium. I would call it a finesse medium heavy. But then again, I wouldn't call the SJ 736 a heavy. To me it's about as close to a true medium heavy as you can get. Or at least my perception of what medium heavy is.

The IPs of my MB 725s and my SJ 736s are within 35 grams of each other. AAs for the 725s, 75.5 average. AAs for the 736s, 78.

As to how they fish, I can't really give a fair comparison. Reason being, my 725s both use XO skeleton grips, while my 736s use conventional reel seats and grip configurations. On the 725s the XO skeleton grip makes a huge difference in CCS numbers. Almost a 90 gram difference in IP, and a 3 degree difference in AA. Both numbers being higher on the built rods, versus the bare blanks. It's because the XO grip eliminates the flex deep into the butt of the blank, of the MB 725 blank. The 736 has a much stiffer butt section.

The MB 725 has the lighter tip, when I compare flexing a bare 725 blank, to flexing the tip of one of my built 736s. But it's not all that much lighter feeling.

Just from fishing the two rods as they're built. If I am fishing Texas rigs, Senkos, Flukes, 3/8 football jigs, I'm picking up the 736s If I am fishing tube jigs, Texas rigs with 3/8 oz weight plus the weight of say a 9" worm, more finesse sized jigs. I'm picking up the 725. I don't really use those rods for moving baits. Although I did throw a 3/8 oz Jack Hammer plus trailer with one of my 725s a couple of weeks ago, and it worked beautifully. Caught a number of really nice smallmouth bass with it. One being a little either side of 4 lbs.

I can say this as far as comparing sensitivity of the two. The 725 C6O2 is noticeably more sensitive. But I have to think that some of that needs to be attributed to the XO skeleton grips. Much like you can tell a difference in sensitivity in your hand between a cork, and a carbon fiber CFX type grip. You can really tell a difference in the hand sensitivity with the XO skeleton grips.

I absolutely love them !!!

Oh and if you are looking to build a casting rod specifically for smallmouth bass? The MB 725 C6O2 is IMO, the Mack Daddy.

@David I appreciate the write up bro!

It’s wild that the ip are within 35g but one feels finesse medium heavy and the other true MH. Very interesting.

Any experience with the X-ray MB764? The ccs data has over 200g difference in the log, not sure which one is closer to true. What were the ips you got for the 725 and 736?

If the 725 might be lighter than the X-ray sj736 and the X-ray Mb764 I might go with that if my higher end is all set.

Building rods in MA, Building the community around the world

I’ll add that I also have the HM MB735 waiting to build, any thoughts on that and where it falls in the mix?

Building rods in MA, Building the community around the world

I really wish blank manufacturers would put more effort into accurately rating their rods and assuring their charts don’t contain errors and anomalies. I don’t live anywhere close to a business that stock blanks. When power numbers, power ratings, and lure and line weights criss-cross in charts, it’s pretty much a move on scenario for me. This is something I’ve commonly encountered in some blank lines. Even CCS data raises questions when it’s inconsistent with other information. There is no way to know if it was correctly measured or entered, or if the other information is in error and should have been updated. I’ve only had a couple of phone calls detangle this. A company might make the best blanks in the world, but if their data creates mysteries and there are quality control and customer service questions, it’s just more variables than I want to deal with for hobby and recreational pursuits.

I have a few MB-725 C6O2 and just finished a couple SJ-764 C6O2 a couple weeks ago. A spinning one for my son and a casting one for my FIL. It’s now my FIL’s favorite rod. He already loved the few X-Rays I’ve built him but he said the 764 C6O2 is a notch above them. He absolutely loves it. Both 764 builds I cut down to 7’2”.

@Kendall in sure at this point NFC is well aware that many people find their deflection images utterly useless. Way too many variables to deduce any helpful comparison between similar blanks. My guess is it's just too resource heavy to improve it at this point, time and cost makes it a non actionable item at the moment. Hopefully it gets improved in the future with more standardized weights among similarly rated blanks and within the same lines - the only variable needs to be the blank.

@jeremy have you used both the c602 725 and 764? I'm just wondering how they compare in power, action, and what techniques they shine in. Even if it's just feedback from those who you know have used them, I appreciate what you can offer.

Building rods in MA, Building the community around the world

I built on the MB-735 HM a couple months ago. Initial impressions it’s seems good. I haven’t personally fished with it yet. I’ve mainly been building them and my 15 year old son and FIL have been using them. I’m hoping I get a lot of time with them this fall. The 735 is a remastered MB843 IMX so if it’s close to it, I’m sure it’s amazing. Unfortunately I’ve never fished an OG Gary Loomis rod. Money was tight when I was growing up.

I just turned 42, and the plan is to get my first bass boat around the 1st of the year. My son will be turning 16 next year so we are making sure everything is in order to make it happen. I need to quit buying so many NFC blanks, components, guides, and reels… That will help me free up more money. lol. It’s addicting.. Those NFC special sales are hard to resist. ????????

El, IP numbers for the MB 725s ..... 699 grams and 712 grams, respectively. IP numbers for my SJ 736s, 720 grams, and 734 grams, respectively.

As far as how I judge one blank to fish like a finesse medium heavy, and the other a true medium heavy..... I am sure a lot of that has to do with the 725s being built using the XO skeleton grip. It really speeds the action up.

Now this just may be me, but to me, faster action rods with lighter tips, don't feel or fish as powerfully as a rod with a lower AA. The rods I have that I really love for fishing Texas rigs and jigs, all have AAs between 69 and 72. To me those actions transmit more of the blanks power, to the hook set. When I consider action, I consider it in a hook setting sense, or in a keeping fish hooked on treble hooked baits, kind of way.

I know action can make a big difference in casting performance, or even working a bait. But as far as casting performance goes, I think that casting technique can make up for maybe not having the perfect action for casting the weight bait you're throwing. And rod power can make up a bit for action when keeping fish pinned on treble hooks.

I'd imagine that a 725 built with a conventional reel seat and grip configuration, would fish much differently than it does with the XO skeleton grip. But I'll never know. I have 2 MB 725 blanks here at the house that I have yet to build on, and an XO skeleton grip here for each one.

El Bolinger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @Kendall in sure at this point NFC is well aware
> that many people find their deflection images
> utterly useless. Way too many variables to deduce
> any helpful comparison between similar blanks. My
> guess is it's just too resource heavy to improve
> it at this point, time and cost makes it a non
> actionable item at the moment. Hopefully it gets
> improved in the future with more standardized
> weights among similarly rated blanks and within
> the same lines - the only variable needs to be the
> blank.
>
> @jeremy have you used both the c602 725 and 764?
> I'm just wondering how they compare in power,
> action, and what techniques they shine in. Even if
> it's just feedback from those who you know have
> used them, I appreciate what you can offer.


My FIL and son have been using their SJ-764 for weightless senkos, Wackey rigs.

725: Shakey heads, smaller Texas rigs, etc

The 764 does have a pretty beefy butt area. CCS data has the 764 with an IP of 615 or so I think, AA around 70 and the 725 IP is around ~700+\- with an AA of 74-78. 725’s action is faster than the SJ-764. I wish I had fished them myself a lot so I could weigh in more. The SJ-764 is now my FIL’s favorite rod. He doesn’t have the 725 though (yet). This info is coming from my son and FIL. My son basically uses his 725 for the same things Dave (David) uses his for. Dave has helped me out a ton with advice, information, etc. I’ve learned a lot from him, Norm, and Les. Les is about to build on his SJ-764 soon. Maybe he’ll weigh in with his thoughts on it.

@David if the MB725 and SJ736 are so close maybe I should pick up the c602 SJ764 to roumd out my bottom end lure ratings. But some people are saying the SJ764 is actually stronger than the MB725....it's too bad they didn't load up the MB725 with 22oz on the NFC website- I would literally have been able to base my decision with just that Pic alone compared to the SJ764.

@jeremy I'm right there with ya brother, I've never been able to afford a G Loomis rod, now that I'm a grown up with a couple kids, a decent job, and a tackle addiction I'll put the money into something I can build myself.

That's awesome you and your boy can share this passion together! I have 2 little girls and one onthe way, I'm hoping at least one of them will get the bug with me.

Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts.

It's crazy though, the more people I talk to the more conflicting reports I get, some say the 764 has more power and others day the 725.

I have the xray MB764 and someone said it fishes very similar to the c602 SJ764, but if it is lighter than the MB725 in not sure how that's possible.

Boggling over here trying to pick a blank sometimes

Building rods in MA, Building the community around the world

I've only been able to fish an Edge rod on the 725 blank, like the 705 HM it is not a 3/4 oz. rod for me, I was happy till I exceeded 1/2 oz. but it threw really light stuff on the Abu reel that was on it. The rod and reel were easily under 8 oz. The 705 HM has no issues 5/8 oz. and below.

El Bolinger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @David if the MB725 and SJ736 are so close maybe I
> should pick up the c602 SJ764 to roumd out my
> bottom end lure ratings. But some people are
> saying the SJ764 is actually stronger than the
> MB725....it's too bad they didn't load up the
> MB725 with 22oz on the NFC website- I would
> literally have been able to base my decision with
> just that Pic alone compared to the SJ764.
>
> @jeremy I'm right there with ya brother, I've
> never been able to afford a G Loomis rod, now that
> I'm a grown up with a couple kids, a decent job,
> and a tackle addiction I'll put the money into
> something I can build myself.
>
> That's awesome you and your boy can share this
> passion together! I have 2 little girls and one
> onthe way, I'm hoping at least one of them will
> get the bug with me.
>
> Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts.
>
>
> It's crazy though, the more people I talk to the
> more conflicting reports I get, some say the 764
> has more power and others day the 725.
>
> I have the xray MB764 and someone said it fishes
> very similar to the c602 SJ764, but if it is
> lighter than the MB725 in not sure how that's
> possible.
>
> Boggling over here trying to pick a blank
> sometimes

I’ll go ahead and do the CCS testing (power) for you tonight to confirm. The CCS data base , I just confirmed, has the SJ-764 C6O2 with an IP of 615, and AA of 70. I’ll see what I get on the IP tonight. Mine will probably be a little lower because I trimmed 3.5” off to make it 7’2”. On my MB-725 C6O2, my IP was 685ish. It was the first CCS test I ever did. I don’t test the AA, but I plan to start once I get a CCS testing setup I’m happy with. Link to the CCS data base:
[docs.google.com]#

Hopefully the link works for you.

Now that I’m an adult with a good job, I’m hoping I can test some OG G Loomis rods out in the future. Total weight of my two MB-725 C6O2’s. First one with a split grip was 3.5 ounces. My 2nd one with the NFC XO Skeleton grip is 3.7 ounces. I think the SJ-764 ended up at 3.7 or 3.8 ounces (split grip).

@Spencer I can dig it man, thanks for sharing! Do you have any experience with the XraySJ736 or XrayMB764 to compare the MB725 to?

It's starting to sound a lot like the SJ736 gathering anecdotal feedback.

Building rods in MA, Building the community around the world

@jeremy I look forward to hearing the results

Geez picking a blank ain't easy sometimes huh

Building rods in MA, Building the community around the world

It seems like those specials often run for weeks and happen every couple of months. If something is frequently discounted, I assign that as its real retail value as that’s the economic reality. Again, if it’s not the next blank or two in what I’ve prioritized for how I fish, I’m not interested in it at even half-price, especially when the frequent sales have been happening for years. The big sales with high shipping prices are certainly a good and completely honest strategy for moving a lot of product. I can see how this works out for a builder wanting to build a sizable inventory. I’ve also noticed a few posts with people wondering if they can use an extra blank or more that they bought for uses where they don’t really fit. Good reel seats, guides, and grips really add up in the cost of turning a discounted blank into a fishing rod. To even accept a free blank you otherwise wouldn’t buy is probably a bad deal unless you are going to sell or swap it.

Sorry El, no experience with those blanks or rods built on them.

El, I think with the MB 725 and SJ 736, the IP numbers though close, can be deceiving. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the SJ 736 has a much stiffer butt section than the MB 725.

When I mentioned how much the 725 butt section flexes in an earlier post, I mean it flexes a lot, You can see it visually all the way to the front rod support on my CCS jig. So in the case of a an 86" long rod. The flex goes to within at least 8.6" of the very butt end of the blank. If I remember correctly, the butt of both of my SJ 736s had a diameter of .590". The butt diameter of all 4 of my 725 blanks has been .473" +/- .003"

The diameter of the blank where the 725 exits the XO skeleton grip, is .486". Yes, the MB 725 blanks I have, all 4 of them, get larger in diameter as you move away from the butt, before they start to taper towards the tip. The diameter of the blank at the end of the reel seat on my SJ 736, is .506" The lengths to the end of reel seat on each rod, are less than .250" different from each other. As you know, IP is a number for a fully loaded blank. I'm thinking the 736 gets more power from the butt section of the blank than the 725, and the 725 gets more of it's power from the mid section of the blank than the 736. At least that's what I see when I flex the two blanks side by side.

Also the flex deep into the butt section of the 725, is partially responsible for its' lower AA. Because of that flex, the blank is a less than a 90 degree angle over a greater distance than the stiffer butt section of the 736. The rod taking on an angle, reduces AA numbers.

I was finally able to find the thread that I posted CCS numbers from one of my built MB 725 rods. [www.rodbuilding.org] You'll see in that thread, what kind of affect the XO skeleton grip has on the 725 blank. And it's all related to the XO skeleton stiffing up the butt section of the 725 blank.

The XO skeleton bumped up that particular 725 blank up to an IP of almost 800 grams. But the rod does not fish like an 800 gram rod. And it's because of the tip. While that is the only 5 power blank I have built on from NFC, I have built on numerous 4 power blanks from NFC that have lower IPs, but much stiffer tips. I don't want to make it sound like it has a tip like a drop shot blank, because it doesn't. If I were comparing it to any of my other rods, I'd say the 725 tip is very close to the tip on my MB 733 X ray. That's a blank rated for 1/8 - 3/8. It has a more powerful mid section than the MB 733 does though.

Spencer was pretty much dead on with his impression of the 725 rod he fished. It will throw light stuff, really well, Which is why I said that if someone was looking to build a casting rod for smallmouth bass, the 725 is the Mack Daddy. And like Spencer said, it is not a 3/4 oz bait rod. Like he said, happy up to 1/2 oz. Beyond that, you're starting to push it.

I absolutely love my 725 rods. At right around 10 oz, the combination of the rod and reel are extremely light. Sensitivity from the blank along with the XO skeleton grip, is just nuts. And with the XO skeleton grip, I think they look sexy as all get out. lol

Edit to correct the butt diameter of the MB 725 blank. and to add an additional comment.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/13/2024 08:12PM by David Baylor.

@David i always appreciate your thoughtful write ups. Makes me wish you've already tried the c602 SJ764, cuz I would trust your judgement.

You're making me just want the 725 anyway haha, does it handle hook sets on long casts well?
How light of a lure can it efficiently cast?

So you're saying the SJ736 comes to a stop in the middle while the MB725 bends through the blank more, but some how has a faster/softer tip? Like it's more parabolic and faster if you know what I mean

Having the xray sj736 and MB764 and HM MB735, I'm trying to find a blank to cover my mediumish techniques (casting build)- 1/8 shakyhead, 1/16-1/8 tube, 1/4oz swim jig/t rig worm.

The irony is I have been mostly throwing moving baits all season, but i know I need to balance myself out next season and play the bottom some more.

Building rods in MA, Building the community around the world

El, thank you for the kind words. I appreciate them.

As far as how the 725 would be on long distance hook sets. It depends on a lot of factors. Size and weight of the bait, hook wire size, open hook or weed guard, line type ..... and of course, what you consider a long cast. I use my 725 rods for bottom contact baits, so I rarely cast longer than probably 50 '. With the majority of my casts being around 40' or under. I've used it for fishing a 9" Texas rigged worm with a 3/8 oz weight. Texas rigged tubes with 1/4 oz weight. Open hooked tube jigs, and shaky head jigs with the bait rigged Texposed. No problem setting the hook on the length casts I make.

I mentioned using it to throw a 3/8 oz chatterbait and being quite successful with it, but again, my longest cast that day was probably 60' and setting the hook wasn't a problem because the smallmouth I was catching that day, were absolutely killing it. They were setting the hook more than I was. lol As far as how light of a lure it can efficiently cast, as mine are built as casting rods, I think the reel has a lot to do with that. I have Shimano Chronarch MGLs on both of my 725 rods, and I have zero problem throwing a 3/16 oz shaky head jig with a 4" straight tail Roboworm on it, the 40 or 50' I mentioned earlier. Wouldn't be surprised if I put a 1/16th oz Ned jig on it with something like a 3.5" Spunk Shad on it, and make the same length casts. It has a great tip on it.

And no, I would say the 725 is just the opposite of what you described. It has a softer tip and a stiffer mid section than the 736, but the lower 1/3 of he blank isn't as stiff as the 736. But it's really hard for me to judge because as I said, my MB 725s are built with XO skeleton grips, and it makes a huge difference on the MB 725 blank.

Perhaps someone like Jeremy or others can chime in on how their 725 fishes compared to other blanks you've mentioned. They may have a different opinion than I.

As far as my building on a C6O2 764 blank. Unless one of my friends wants a rod built on that blank, I don't see it in my cards. I already have enough rods in that power range. lol Then with it being a C6O2 blank, I'd have to drop big money on guides and a new reel for it .... lol

Plus, I just got a new front sonar unit for my boat with live sonar. Now I need to save some money for a new trolling motor. Gonna finally break down and get one with spot lock. It makes fishing for smallmouth in wind and open water, soooooooo much easier.