Are there advantages or disadvantages for using blue painters tape compared to masking tape when using to make an arbor?

Blue painters tape is a recipe for disaster when used as arbors. The painters tape is designed to be removed easily so it does not have the same adhesion as standard masking tape - it will loosen very quickly & cause your seat to spin/come loose.

Agree with VooDoo. With masking tape be sure to totally encapsulate the whole arbor in epoxy to ensure that it will maintain its integrity if exposed to water. If you build right, no water can get in, but "stuff" happens.

VooDoo Rods Wrote:
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> Blue painters tape is a recipe for disaster when
> used as arbors. The painters tape is designed to
> be removed easily so it does not have the same
> adhesion as standard masking tape - it will loosen
> very quickly & cause your seat to spin/come loose.

Thank you. That was my assumption but thought I would ask here. Using an arbor for a butt cap on the Judge I just purchased from you.... had some 1/4" blue tape I was thinking about using to get more gap to fill in with epoxy but sure won't use it now! Really appreciate your advice.

Thank you,
NT

It’s been posted on here a lot about using drywall tape for arbors. I fit seats as close as is practical to the blank and use drywall tape in even laps around the blank (I think one of our moderators pioneered this???). I’ve tested this on everything from triple digit halibut to golden trout. It’s become as no brainer as using Gen4 rod finish.

If "drywall tape" refers to the fiberglass open mesh, I have found that while it is bullet proof functionally, it is very difficult and messy to use. At least I've not broken the code to handling it, applying it, getting epoxy into it without a mess. I finally gave away my huge roll of it to another builder. Tips on handling it would be appreciated.

I only employ drywall tape if the gap to be filled can be accomplished with no more than 4 wraps of the tape. More than that and you might as well go ahead and use poly-foam arbors.

.............

I exclusively use either polyurethane foam or dry wall tape as arbors. I think one of the secrets to using dry wall tape is to tack the leading edge to the blank with a drop or two of super glue. Doing this prevents the tape from walking after applying the epoxy. I don’t find using dry wall tape that messy to use. I always wear nitrile gloves when using epoxy and keep paper towels and DNA at the ready for fast and easy clean up of excess epoxy.

Norm

Thanks, Norman. I had forgotten that tip on super glue. But since I've given away my tape, I'm full on with masking tape. :-)

I think selecting a reel seat with an internal diameter that closely (but not tightly, as point loading and epoxy squeeze-out can be really bad) fits the blank is an often overlooked part of custom rod building. I see no advantages to extra thicknesses of any kind of tape, epoxy, or foam between the blank and seat. There is a luxury of well designed and made, varying diameter offerings by Fuji, SeaGuide, and Alps.

I’ve had some evolution of thought, here. For a time I preferred SeaGuide Alien CCT seats. I still like them a lot, and the two sizes do fit many bass blanks well. I’m using a Fuji TCH seat on a new build because it’s available in a smaller internal diameter that will better fit the particular blank. I’m now trying to get within a millimeter on rods. Tom’s example of four drywall tape laps just measured out on one of my mandrels to be a diameter increase of .67mm. Glued down it would’ve probably been slightly less. This is an achievable gap on most blanks with a little research and planning. Often, the rod rotation on the boat deck includes several Aliens, two PTS’s, and a Razor. I can’t say that one feels noticeably less ergonomic than the rest. You guys who like to use 18mm pipes on nearly everything might be out of luck on fitting, though ????.

Occasionally, a blank runs just thicker than one size offering of appropriate seats and leaves a couple of mm’s to the next one. Most often, though, I find that one of my favorite lines of seats has an option that closely matches. The new Fuji TCH series has offerings in two mm increments from 11-19mm. The SeaGuide Alien/Octa and Fuji PTS/TVS seats cut in the middle of some of those increments (size interchangeability). Alps has ranges at .5mm increments. Some fly rod and ultralight seats are reamable. Alps has all sorts of diameter and insert configurations in their saltwater seat line. On a lifting rod, like a halibut one, I want a half to one mm of epoxy saturated drywall tape for bond strength and some flex/cushioning. I have more confidence in a few rounds of drywall tape and GFlex epoxy holding and protecting the blank than any other bonding scenario.

Some of the painters tapes actually repel epoxy. (silicone contaminated)

Michael Danek Wrote:
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> If "drywall tape" refers to the fiberglass open
> mesh, I have found that while it is bullet proof
> functionally, it is very difficult and messy to
> use. At least I've not broken the code to
> handling it, applying it, getting epoxy into it
> without a mess. I finally gave away my huge roll
> of it to another builder. Tips on handling it
> would be appreciated.

Mick...I wrap on the tape and then secure it with a couple daps of UV resin.

KISS. Masking tape.

If that does not work for you than buy the foam arbors, but you wind up sanding them and that makes a mess, and you have to first epoxy them to the blank and later epoxy the reel seat to the foam arbor.

Masking tape in two or three 1/2" wide or less wraps is easy to apply, can be built up to the exact height required, and can be epoxied as soon as the tape wrap is finished. Has never failed me.

david taylor Wrote:
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>...
> Has never failed me.

The only reel seats that I have seen fail were arbored with masking tape.
Sure...it works great...and I have built a bunch with masking tape.
But the adhesive on masking tape gets old with age...and fails miserably in the cold.
I also realize that its the epoxy encapsulating the tape that has the holding power.
I'm never gonna win the tape vs polyurethan argument...but you cant dispute this:

1" arbors @ 18mm.
Tape: 4.4 grams
Polyurethane: 0.85 grams.

Chris Catignani Wrote:
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> david taylor Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >...
> > Has never failed me.
>
> The only reel seats that I have seen fail were
> arbored with masking tape.
> Sure...it works great...and I have built a bunch
> with masking tape.
> But the adhesive on masking tape gets old with
> age...and fails miserably in the cold.
> I also realize that its the epoxy encapsulating
> the tape that has the holding power.
> I'm never gonna win the tape vs polyurethan
> argument...but you cant dispute this:
>
> 1" arbors @ 18mm.
> Tape: 4.4 grams
> Polyurethane: 0.85 grams.


So the weight difference between 4x 1" tape arbors and a 4" polyurethane arbor is about 14.2 grams. That's less weight (1.2 grams less)
than 3 US nickels. I wonder if anyone could feel the difference blindfolded with a 23.8 oz. surf reel on a 13 foot surf rod?
Anyway in 39 years of amateur building I've never had a failure from masking tape arbors on everything from a 7 ft #3 wt fly rod to a 7 1/2' tuna rod to a 14 ft surf rod.

So...masking tape is better because:

You cant tell the difference in weight gained.
You have never had a failure.

Strawman.

I had a CFX foam filled, carbon sleeve insert fail on a SCV70MM crankbait rod. A foam layer was bonded to the entire blank surface when I disassembled. The foam clearly sheared apart internally. A couple of things are worth noting here. CFX foam runs half or less in density to the industry norm. I had two-hand launched crankbaits, with as much rod velocity as I could achieve, thousands of times before the failure.

Most or all types of foams breakdown eventually. Does anyone know about any lifespan data for Fuji foam arbors?

Epoxy the foam arbor inside the reel seat, use a Flex Coat pilot bit to get the ID close to the OD of the blank where the reel seat will be mounted, and ream lightly. I've used masking tape arbors on two of the rods I've built. Comparing which is messier, tape or a foam arbor. I'd all it a toss up.

As far as the weight of a foam arbor and a masking tape arbor. In the over all weight of the rod there is a difference, but as the weight is in the reel seat, it's not going to affect the performance of the rod at all.

Oh and curious if those that use tape arbors do something to the surface of the tape to make it a water break free surface?

David Baylor Wrote:
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> Oh and curious if those that use tape arbors do
> something to the surface of the tape to make it a
> water break free surface?

I cant say that I have ever sanded my tape, but if you were to scuff it...you would only be scuffing the top most layer.

On a side note...I have seen some pretty darn good arbors with just plain 'ol cardboard.

Many times I will just shim a reel seat with just a piece of a rod blank.
Cut it to length and crush it in a vice...it almost always breaks into quarters.

Before GRAPHITE arbors became available I machined arbors from (wood) broom handles. Having said that, I will pause and slip on my flack jacket.......................


OK,

IMO the choice of arbors or other fillers is a function of gap size.

I find arbors are more effective for larger gaps, but when it comes to small gaps arbors can be difficult to shape (machine) and handle.

Tape is great to use for small gaps but can be unwieldy to apply for larger gaps and may not be as sturdy as arbors.

Also with smaller gaps one can be creative and use shims, thread, sections of rod blanks or layers of epoxy.

There are no tables or formulas that tells one what the transition point for arbors or tape should be, that decision is left to the experience and temperament of the builder.

I do not favor one application over the other I use the one I feel will work for the job at hand based on past experience.

Have fun
.