I’m sure this has been discussed previously but I wasn’t able to find an exact answer to my question by searching..

I’m making a casting rod using Fuji KW10, KW5.5 (or KB5.5), KB5.5, KT5.5 (or 5) guides on top. I understand the rule of thumb for a low profile reel is to put the stripper guide at ~18-22”. I also understand the running guides should be determined with a 2 line static deflection test. Should the second/third guides of the “reduction” train be part of the static deflection test or should they be a certain distance away from the stripper? My static deflection test put these guides very far away from the stripper and I’m afraid of it hindering the casting ability since these guides are intended to choke the line down during casting. None of my other rods (including two customs) are anywhere close to this spacing (and one is on the same blank). A Mudhole 2 line static deflection test video by Mike Kosiba specifically says the second guide should be 7-9 inches from the stripper and the 3rd at 6-8” from the 2nd. Didn’t see this from Fuji though.

Also, am I trying to completely avoid line touching the blank when it is bent at 90 degrees?

You only need two sizes - the butt guide and then the runners, which can all be the same size. How long is the rod you're building? Low frame, small ring guides will be difficult to space to keep the line absolutely off the blank, unless you use quite a few of them. Probably the length of rod in feet plus 4 more. Due to the very light weight of today's guides, this is necessarily too many.

............

7’. Just to clarify, are you suggesting that keeping it completely off the blank is impractical and unecessary with low frame small guides? Or did I misunderstand?

With low frame, small ring guides, it is almost impossible to keep the line off the blank during heavy loads unless you use a great number of guides. Proper use of a rod precludes removing line with the reel while the rod is heavily flexed. You use the rod to pull the fish to you, and then lower the rod while recovering the line you gained. So having the line touch the blank lightly isn't an issue. You don't want so few guides that the line ever passes below the rod, of course, but the number I gave you above should be sufficient to keep that from happening.

............

Thanks Tom, how about location of the first guide past the butt guide? Static deflection or a set distance? I would expect it is still controlling the line during casting.

KW10
KW5.5
KB4.5 (3) (KB 5 or 5.5 for you)
KT4.5 (7) (KT 5 or 5.5 for you)

I did this on my 7’ 2” Medium/Heavy Fast MB-725 X-Ray C6O2 based on a recommendation from a member on here and it worked great. I went with more KT guides. 2 line static test went great. Line didn’t touch the rod. I’m very new to road building but the KW10, KW5.5, KB, KT I really liked.

I have a couple Fuji RV6’s I’m going to try. I’ll probably do RV6, KW 5 or 5.5 then go with KB5 and KT5’s. This will be my first time trying the RV6. The KW5 or 5.5 I might leave off and go straight to the KB’s. If I don’t like it, I’ll stick with that KW10, KW5.5 train.

Jeremy, that blank is the next blank I will be building so I appreciate the feedback on that one. Did you space your KW5.5 strictly with static deflection? If so, where did it end up in relation to the butt guide?

I can't really advise on the butt guide location without having the reel and blank in front of me.

............

Well I guess I’m trying to figure out how to space it myself (not the butt guide but the 1 or 2 guides past the butt guide). When does the transition between casting performance and fish fighting performance occur. This seems to be better defined for spinning rods with more aggressive reduction trains.

Will,
I don't believe there is a set answer, and every time someone comes up with one someone comes along and shows it isn't so, Bobby Feazel did just that many years ago when he set "every guide" position by the static distribution test on some 8 ft. crankbait rods and let others try his work. The rod has all 3.5 mm guides on top. His first guide from the reel was considerably further from the reel than we are used to seeing as the reel to guide and tip top to guide distance were also set by the static distribution test.

Will - this is what I've been doing on my casting builds (freshwater bass rods with low profile bait casting reels). I have been using the KW10, KW5.5 then 2 or 3 KB's of either 4.5 or 5 size and the rest KT's. The way I space them that I like is to set my Butt guide based on the reel being used. For low profile bass reels ~19" seems to work well. Then from there, I measure distance from the Butt guide to Tip and then with my expected number of guides I space progressively starting from the tip. I usually start with around 9cm (3.5in) and progressively increase from there. I have a little spreadsheet that I use to plug numbers in.... I usually have to play around with a few iterations of the spacing to get where I like it ON PAPER. Then, very important, I place all my guides based on that layout and do my static testing and adjust from there always trying to retain a progressive spacing....

For my current build (An NFC Xray SJ 736) I used 12 total guides. KW10, KW5.5, (3) KB4.5's and (7) KT4.5's. Probably could have gotten away with 1 or maybe 2 less guides but they are so lightweight I don't worry too much about an extra one or two to get a static test result I'm happy with. The spacing that I ended up with after going thru my process described above was:

Guide# from tip 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 (butt guide)
spacing cm 8 8 8 8.5 9.5 10 10 12 13 14 17 20 48.5 (distance from reel line guide to butt guide)
spacing inch 3.149606296 3.149606296 3.149606296 3.34645669 3.740157477 3.93700787 3.93700787 4.724409444 5.118110231 5.511811018 6.692913379 7.87401574 19.09448817 (distance from reel line guide to butt guide)

I prefer to work with cm when laying out guide spacing because the numbers are just way easier (I only go to 0.5 min increment). For my current build I ended up with 20 cm (7.87 inch) between butt guide and the KW5.5. Like others have said not necessarily any set process. This works for me. My understanding with casting layouts is biggest concern is spacing and height of your butt guide to matchup with your reel and make sure line not interfering with your hand on fore grip (if you have one) and not too sharp an angle from reel to butt guide. Otherwise not a whole lot to worry about regarding casting performance...

I've been building for ~2 years now and this has worked well for me. Like others have said, sometimes I replace the KW10 with a RV6 and then goto a KB5.5 and then onto my regular KB's and KT's. Both have worked really well.

Thanks for the detailed explanation of your process, Kevin. In my case, static testing showed that I could move the second guide (next to butt guide) quite a bit away from the butt guide. I’ll have to measure it when I get home. I’m concerned that if I go with that spacing that there will be too much space between the butt guide and the next one. Could that be a concern when casting? It also looks funny so I could place a guide lower down just for looks as well.

Only way to know for sure is to tape on guides and test cast it.

Sounds like you have very little flex when testing between butt guide and next guide so for me I’d stick with the “on-paper” progressive spacing and leave it alone. It’s not going to hurt the static load testing and for me it would just look better than a big gap…. All you might gain by increasing gap is reducing a runner guide.

I’ve seen several people on here make the statement, “they’ve never seen a rod that doesn’t flex progressively”. Also, many have commented about having a lot of flexibility with guide layouts.

I’d say both are true and that is the beauty of building your own…. You have a lot of freedom to find what works best for you.

I had about 14” between the butt guide and 2nd guide. Blank is a Rainshadow REVCB70M (IP=327g, AA=70-71). Will plan to test cast for education purposes.

Will Bedell Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jeremy, that blank is the next blank I will be
> building so I appreciate the feedback on that one.
> Did you space your KW5.5 strictly with static
> deflection? If so, where did it end up in relation
> to the butt guide?


KW10 19.5”(19 1/2”) from reel face. KW5.5 9.5” (9 1/2”) from KW10. You can shoot me an email and I’ll share my measurements. Once you get the KW10 and 5.5 down, the load test will tell you the rest. I went with 12 total guides plus the tip. I used seven KT4.5’s on the MB-725 X-Ray C6O2 Epitome and had no issues with the line touching the blank. You might be okay using six KT’s.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/19/2024 06:38PM by Jeremy Moore.

Another member on here (David) has built a few rods using the 725 C6O2. He helped me a lot and has still been helping. I’m in the process of building my 2nd 725 C6O2. Went with the NFC XO Skeleton for the grip.

I plan to do the CCS testing tonight (pier only). Minus the action test. I still don’t know which phone app to use or where to put my angle guide wire at on the tip. If anyone sees this, explain to me or post a link. I’ve googled CCS testing and it only ever takes me to the intro page. I’d like to figure out how to do that AA CCS test. Then I’ll start my guide spacing and 2 line static test tonight after CCS power test is done.

Kevin Fiant Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Will - this is what I've been doing on my casting
> builds (freshwater bass rods with low profile bait
> casting reels). I have been using the KW10, KW5.5
> then 2 or 3 KB's of either 4.5 or 5 size and the
> rest KT's. The way I space them that I like is to
> set my Butt guide based on the reel being used.
> For low profile bass reels ~19" seems to work
> well. Then from there, I measure distance from
> the Butt guide to Tip and then with my expected
> number of guides I space progressively starting
> from the tip. I usually start with around 9cm
> (3.5in) and progressively increase from there. I
> have a little spreadsheet that I use to plug
> numbers in.... I usually have to play around with
> a few iterations of the spacing to get where I
> like it ON PAPER. Then, very important, I place
> all my guides based on that layout and do my
> static testing and adjust from there always trying
> to retain a progressive spacing....
>
> For my current build (An NFC Xray SJ 736) I used
> 12 total guides. KW10, KW5.5, (3) KB4.5's and (7)
> KT4.5's. Probably could have gotten away with 1
> or maybe 2 less guides but they are so lightweight
> I don't worry too much about an extra one or two
> to get a static test result I'm happy with. The
> spacing that I ended up with after going thru my
> process described above was:
>
> Guide# from tip 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 (butt
> guide)
> spacing cm
> 8 8 8 8.5 9.5 10 10 12 13 14 17 20 48.5 (distance
> from reel line guide to butt guide)
> spacing inch
> 3.149606296 3.149606296 3.149606296 3.34645669 3.7
> 40157477 3.93700787 3.93700787 4.724409444 5.11811
> 0231 5.511811018 6.692913379 7.87401574 19.0944881
> 7 (distance from reel line guide to butt guide)
>
> I prefer to work with cm when laying out guide
> spacing because the numbers are just way easier (I
> only go to 0.5 min increment). For my current
> build I ended up with 20 cm (7.87 inch) between
> butt guide and the KW5.5. Like others have said
> not necessarily any set process. This works for
> me. My understanding with casting layouts is
> biggest concern is spacing and height of your butt
> guide to matchup with your reel and make sure line
> not interfering with your hand on fore grip (if
> you have one) and not too sharp an angle from reel
> to butt guide. Otherwise not a whole lot to worry
> about regarding casting performance...
>
> I've been building for ~2 years now and this has
> worked well for me. Like others have said,
> sometimes I replace the KW10 with a RV6 and then
> goto a KB5.5 and then onto my regular KB's and
> KT's. Both have worked really well.


Perfect timing for your SJ-736 build. I have an SJ-736, MB-736, both X-Rays and a MB-735 HM blank in hand that will be my next builds along with an Immortal 7’3” H/Extra Fast.
I will def use your SJ-736 spacing on mine and adjust if needed. Thanks for the detailed reply you sent!