Is there any reason not to use Flex Coat Epoxy instead of hot melt Tip Top adhesive? I have had several Tip Tops come loose in our Arizona heat using the hot melt and do not trust it anymore.

IMO, a two part epoxy is my preference over hot melt.

Only issue is if you have to remove it.
IMO - you may be misusing the hotmelt:
1. Is it really hot melt for fishing rod tip tops - of homely from craft stores which melts at lower temps.
2. Proper way to use hot melt: cut slivers from stick.
Insert them into tip top tube till full.
Apply heat to tip top tube until homely starts to bubble.
Then insert tip.
Herb
PS - I use a soldering iron to heat tip top tube.

Doug Noble Wrote:
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> Is there any reason not to use Flex Coat Epoxy
> instead of hot melt Tip Top adhesive? I have had
> several Tip Tops come loose in our Arizona heat
> using the hot melt and do not trust it anymore.


I use 5 min Flex Coat Epoxy

Doug
IMO- two part, 15- 30 minute epoxy offers the strongest bond and it allows plenty of time to align the tip to the guide train and will not be affected by the Arizona heat..

Yes, epoxy makes tip removal more difficult, but that is a future event that may never occur, if it does, it just takes a little extra effort to remove the tip.

I have no issue with using hot melt glue, it has been proven to be a standard and very reliable installation and if you follow Herb's instruction you won't go wrong.

Herb;
Using a soldering iron to heat the tip top tube is a great idea! Thanks!

Have fun

John

see my method posted on here I think 2002 using a stretched rubber band and carefully applied heat at the tip of the tiptop tube (nearest guide ring end) the heat will travel up the tube and the rubber band pulls off the guide just as soon as the epoxy softens and before the heat penetrates to the blank. Finally don't stand in front (at end of the tiptop) because it flys off with high velocity.

Thank you, Was doing it somewhat wrong. I had tried using Rod Tip Hot Glue applied with a heat gun. I have not been stuffing the Tip Top, but coating the tip and twisting the Tip Top up and down while continuing to heat. The two travel rods were left in a vehicle that I am sure exceeded 150 degrees.
Have a lot more confidence in the Epoxy though and will go back to using it.
Thank you

Rod tip hot glue is best, but a pain in the ass in small-sized tip tops such as with 4.0 tip tops on fly rods. You can't even cut slivers or shavings to fit into those small tubes. You can dab some hot melt onto the blank tip, give it a heat flash, and slide on the tip top. Epoxy is easier but will require more temperature to break its bond, and applying that temperature for too long can harm the rod tip.

I have more than 20 fly rods and have never broken the loop on a tip top, so I have given up on hot glue on all but the larger volume tip tops, and gone with epoxy.

Another vote for using epoxy.

A couple tips.

Install the tip top before wrapping the other guides - a LOT easier to align the other guides to the epoxied on tip top than the other way around in case the tip turns a bit before the glue is fully set.

If the tip top tube is "airtight" be sure that the epoxy doesn't push it back up from air pressure after being fully seated before the epoxy sets.

Good luck!

Make sure the hot melt gets down inside the tiptop tube. Heat the cement, push the tiptop tube down into it, withdraw, then reheat the tiptop tube and push onto the rod blank tip. This forces the cement into the tiptop tube.

When you make your trim wrap against the tiptop tube, carry it up and over the tube for about 1/8th inch. Then epoxy over that. This will lock the tiptop in place under extraordinary circumstances.

..............

For soak temps in a car that exceed 150 probably some kind of epoxy is the most reliable. Anyone have actual data on the melting point of tiptop hot melt?

Seems like by now we would have a product in between hot melt and epoxy for this use.

From my experience, the rubber band method for removal of an epoxied-on tiptop does not reliably work. We need an epoxy of intermediate strength or one more easily deteriorated by heat. Epoxy doesn't melt; it gets damaged/deteriorated by heat until it fails. The temperature it takes to do that is very close to the temperature that will damage a blank's tip.

I know people use heat to take off reel seats, but applying heat to the butt section of a blank is entirely different/less risky than apply heat to a tiny tip.

I like rod tip hot glue, too. Once you get the hang of it it's easy to use.

Michael Danek Wrote:
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> Anyone have actual data on the melting point of tiptop hot melt?

Michael...the low temp sticks (white) have a melting point of 240 F (120 C).
The high temp (brown) are around 400 F (200 C).

FWIW the low temp hot melt glue actually performs better in freezing temps.

Michael
That sounds hi for both
Herb

Different bonding epoxies will break down at different temperatures, and most will be north of 200 degrees F. Some 400F or more. As stated, Epoxy does not melt, the chemical bond it creates is basically broken down by heat and you are left with a lot of residue and powder-like remains that must be removed.

Hot glue melts and will do so at temperatures lower than epoxy (sometimes 170 degrees F) and will also melt quickly, without much prolonged heat. Epoxy sometimes requires a much longer heating time to break the bond. .

Well the method always worked for me, maybe it was because of the very heavy Newspaper bundle rubber bands I used, stretched very forcefully on the rod axis, that did it for me. Also didn't have a lot of residue, figures when a closely fitted tube of the tiptop matches the blank tip there won't be much epoxy "residue" in comparison to a tiptop larger than need be installed on the rod. I have demonstrated it many times at seminars, do it your way and I will do it My way.

If the tiptop easily slides off with moderate heat, it wasn't put on with epoxy.

david taylor Wrote:
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> Rod tip hot glue is best, but a pain in the ass in
> small-sized tip tops such as with 4.0 tip tops on
> fly rods. You can't even cut slivers or shavings
> to fit into those small tubes. You can dab some
> hot melt onto the blank tip, give it a heat flash,
> and slide on the tip top. Epoxy is easier but
> will require more temperature to break its bond,
> and applying that temperature for too long can
> harm the rod tip.
>
> I have more than 20 fly rods and have never broken
> the loop on a tip top, so I have given up on hot
> glue on all but the larger volume tip tops, and
> gone with epoxy.


It's easy to get the hot melt inside the tiptop tube. Heat the glue stick and then push the tiptop tube into the melted stick. When you pull it away there will be hot melt inside the tiptop tube. Now heat the tiptop tube for all of many 2 seconds and push the top onto the rod blank.

............

I use a method similar to what Mr. Kirkman uses.

I have a couple of different pieces of piano wire that have been sharpend to a dull point.
I make sure that the wire itself is of a size that will fit into the tip top being bonded to the tip of the rod.

I use an alcohol burner with 90% alcohol so there is no visible flame nor any soot to contaminate the job.

I heat up the end of the pointed wire with the alcohol burner and use it to collect some glue from the hot melt glue stick that I am using.

I then heat the tip top by itself and also heat up the adhesive that is on the end of the pointed wire - which is then inserted into the tip top. This leaves the tip top well filled with hot melt glue.

Note:
When doing tip top work I have the rod on my power wrapper so that I can turn the rod as needed with my foot control, keeping both hands free for the tip top work.

I heat up the ball of glue that I have on the pointed wire and apply it to the rotating tip top.

Now, I have a tip top with glue on the inside and a rod tip with glue on the outside. Then, I simultaniously heat the tip top and the glue on the rod tip and quickly slip the tip top on the rod blanks tip and align the tip top.
I then use a craft stick on the reheated excess glue on the tip top and with the rod turning wipe off melted glue from the rod tip and the tip top. I triple check the alignment of the tip top - tweaking the alignment if necessary and calling the job complete.

The typing takes longer than the application of the tip. With everything at hand, this job is only about a 2 minute job.

Best wishes.

Update on my method. Just got 4 rods in for repair. Three had to have the tiptop guides replaced. One was completely gone and one still had part of the guide frame attached to the tube for me to hold onto and it easily flew off. The other was a non braced tiptop and all that was left on the rod was the tiptop tube. I have a few hemostats an I attached one to the end of the tiptop tube maybe 1/4" of it. i then heated that portion of the tube with my Alcohol lamp to allow the heat to travel up it and after about 10-15 seconds it flew off. the blank surfaces of both were hard and smooth.