I know when building rods that you want the smallest guide train possible. I was wondering about fly rod guides however. If I’m running single foot guides on a build and am going down to a size 3 recoil guide should my tip top opening match the smallest running guides in front of it? I was mainly curious as to how you guys do this as there are recoil tip tops that are standard, large, and x-large loops. I’m almost certain other manufacturers offer different sized loops on their tip tops as well.

In short, does your tip top opening need to match the running guide(s) in front of it or can there be room for a large opening that’s bigger than your smallest running guide?

It certainly needn't be any smaller, or you have negated anything gained by using the smallest guide that'll easily pass your knots and/or loop connections. Larger? It doesn't necessarily need to be and will only add a bit more weight in the worst possible place to add it, but it's not going to ruin the rod. There can be one reason to use a tiptop one size larger than your guides, however, and that is due to the angle of the line the top has to accommodate. Your running guides only handle line coming is straight to their openings. The tiptop often has to pass line coming in at some degree of angle. If I were you I'd mock up the rod and do some retrieving on the lawn with a tiptop the same size as your guides and then perhaps one size larger. Make sure to bring your knots or loops through it to mimic what you'll be doing on the water. In 15 or 20 minutes you should have your answer.

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Tom Kirkman Wrote:
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> It certainly needn't be any smaller, or you have
> negated anything gained by using the smallest
> guide that'll easily pass your knots and/or loop
> connections. Larger? It doesn't necessarily need
> to be and will only add a bit more weight in the
> worst possible place to add it, but it's not going
> to ruin the rod. There can be one reason to use a
> tiptop one size larger than your guides, however,
> and that is due to the angle of the line the top
> has to accommodate. Your running guides only
> handle line coming is straight to their openings.
> The tiptop often has to pass line coming in at
> some degree of angle. If I were you I'd mock up
> the rod and do some retrieving on the lawn with a
> tiptop the same size as your guides and then
> perhaps one size larger. Make sure to bring your
> knots or loops through it to mimic what you'll be
> doing on the water. In 15 or 20 minutes you should
> have your answer.
>
> ...........

Thanks for the detailed explanation Tom. These questions are all hypothetical, but what would you do in the event that your only options are to have your tip top slightly smaller or slightly bigger than the running guides? I’m not sure that is a common scenario but I figured it’s happened at some point right?

Slightly larger.

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Tom K,
Can a single foot guide be used instead of a tip top?

Yes.

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Thank you sir

I'll just say that .... IF the rod is for yourself and you want to experiment. Skip the fancy finish and try a few options.

On my latest rod I just picked a single foot and called it a day! It sure ain't looking perfect but I could absolutely tell the improvement from the regular tip top on my ultra light blank. I even went with an RSFX1 just to see how it would hold... I wouldn't throw anything else than one of those super thin euro fly line with it.
The wire gauge of those ultra thin guides would be an issue with a thicker line as it offers less surface to glide when hooking a fish. I find the line happens to "scrape" a bit more than I would want it to. The coating of the fly line definitely makes a load of difference too.

Which brings me to the important aspect of a fly line... LINE CARE !!!! Wash and treat them, floating and sinking won't take the same products but it always amazes me how quickly the line will attract all the grime and dirt. Even in somewhat clean waters.

With respect to the question above:
Can a single foot guide be used instead of a tip top?

I don't build any rods that you would call extra heavy, but for fly, spinning and baitcaster, I haven't used a tip top for maybe 10 years. I just bind at the tip the same single foot guide that I use as "running" guides.

It's lighter, and I don't see any downside other than it's a little more effort to bind it on rather than glue.

I don't understand why this is not common practice. Am I missing something?

You're not missing a thing other than after a time people get used to certain things as being the norm and any deviation is seen as somehow being ill-advised. In reality, if something works, it. works.

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David, I think it's just common practice. I stopped using tip top on lighter fly rods it sure isn't looking as good but it does work!
What's my tip-top on my everyday 5wt fly rod for guiding? A single leg #7 torzite.

My PacBay CFTXL 4.0 tip top are 0.41g
My Fuji KTTG#7 is 0.12g



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/2024 08:35PM by Ben Lori.