"Chris, as i can understand you are a f?n of the rapid choke concept and you believe that less reduction guides (for "thin" braids like japanese PE 1.5) give a better casting result. You have tried it, so i certainly i give also a try"



Panagiotis , the whole premise behind the KR concept is to choke the line down as quickly as possible and the only way that can be accomplished is by choosing guides that have the biggest impact on line direction . Layouts like (30, 20,12,10,8) or ( 25,16,12,10 ) are not KR concept system builds because # 1 , there are too many guides and # 2 , the majority of those guides do not have much of an impact on changing the line direction . Line change direction with those guide choices changes gradually , way to gradual for it to be called a KR concept rapid choke system .


Remember with spinning, all layouts come down to line characteristics meaning type size diameter and suppleness . Now don't get me wrong, the above layouts will work perfectly fine but they are not true rapid choke KR concept builds and by your first post it sounded to me that the purpose of your post was to turn your current rod into a true KR concept rod .


A true KR concept build would be something utilizing guide sizes like Norm shows in his last post , 25,12 or a 20,10 etc... because each guide changes the line direction dramatically not just subtly . Certain types of line WILL NOT allow you to jump from a 25 to a 12 without suffering serious issues but with your line it's a great choice .

On my KR concept builds I go from a size 25 to a 10 instead of the 25 to a 12 and I don't use any size 8 or 7 mm guides I jump directly down to a 5.5 because in my testing and with my specific line choice it has shown to work best . The 12 and 10 mm guides are very very close in height and both will bullseye perfectly with a 5.5 or 5 choke and runners . Anglers need to remove their long standing beliefs ingrained in them about guide layouts and that can be very difficult . With light braid the seemingly impossible becomes possible and more anglers are finding that out and taking advantage of things that they initially believed would never work . Looking back at the choices in guides, we go from a 25 to a 12 or 10 and then down to a 5.5 .

That's at least what I have done in the past but the point is each guide has a major impact on line direction which is what the KR concept is about , use the least amount of guides possible in the reduction train to get the line down to the choke and runners as quickly as possible . That is the definition of a rapid choke KR concept layout and why it only works with very specific line types and sizes .

Thank you norm, i will try your suggestions. The publications you mentioned, i have them already. Thank you.

chris c nash Wrote:
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Chris, i will definitely try some choices with fewer reduction guides. Thank you.

That's all you can do Panagiotis . The people offering suggestions want one thing and that is for you to end up being very pleased in the end with whatever you decide to do.

My guide train would be…
RV25, KL12, KL8M, KL7L, KT6 runners.

If I really wanted to use the RV16…
RV25, RV16, KL12, KT10, KT7 runners.

Do you connect a leader to your braid?

Never mind the leader question, I see now.

25lbs leader is the max for the size 6 running guides, if you go heavier with your leaders you need to increase guide sizes, or use a short leader that stays outside the tip-top.

Yes I use leader as I mentioned 25lbs. I usually avoid to cast with the connection inside the guides but there are times that you cannot avoid it.

Learn how to tie an FG knot as the leader to braid connection, and you won’t need to keep the connection out of the guide train. It is the thinnest and strongest leader knot I know of, and I used most of them. It doesn’t have a tag end at the front end of the knot so it passes very smoothly through the running guides even those that are much smaller than the ones you are using.
Norm

The fg is the knot I use for more than 5 years now. I am very verified with it. I just do not want to suffer it if I do not have a reason to do.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2023 11:01AM by panagiotis zannetos.

I always use one size larger for the tiptop ring than for the running guides. If you string up a rod and pull on the line you'll see why. If you use a tiptop with the same size ring as the runners and pull on the line to load the rod you will notice that the first runner does not immediately come under load. the rod has to flex a bit before the line contacts it. If the tiptop ring is one size larger than the runners and you do the same thing, you will notice that all the tipmost guides pick up the load at the same time the tiptop does. This may not be an issue but I like to see the line on all the guides at the same time it begins loading the tiptop.

I have not heard about putting one size bigger tip. It does not sounds a bad idea but are there any negative points? Thank you