How much difference do you notice, Tim, in the Alpha vs Beta?

Thanks.

Very different animals.
The 5wt Beta has a higher CCS number than 6wt alpha. Just as an FYI

The Alpha is very smooth and you feel the rod work, dries, wooly buggers, etc. it likes a smooth casting motion and it is easy to over power with an aggressive stroke. My wife has taken it (6wt) from me as she loves it with her 4wt Alpha. Really a nice lightweight blank. I have the 406 DT lines on it. I really like fighting the fish with the bend. Typically if fishing a 4, I fish glass, but I like the alpha.

The Beta is quite fast with a light tip and then more junk in the trunk. I like standard weight lines on it. It tip casts very easily with those lines and a minimum of applied power. Overweighted lines take away the light tip performance (to me) and require a bit more user input. That said, the Beta thrives on input and generates impressive lines speeds with a quick haul and flick. Light weight and powerful. Much nicer perceived swing weight vs 6wt classic.

I am trending back to a lot more M-MF rods at this stage in life. Ymmv



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2024 02:35PM by Tim Scott.

Thanks,much, Tim. Great feedback. Though I am sure you meant "different" vs. "difficult." Those darned typos!

Like you I have come to dislike the rods of the "nuclear arms race" era where everything had to be super fast, and have come to appreciate a more moderate-fast action, and sometimes moderate, so the Alpha may be up my ally. If the Epitome is less fast or powerful than the Beta, then that may be OK, too.

I like moderate action rods the carbon air moderate is faster than the gamma alpha. Depends on personal preference and purpose. I really like the LMX classic 2 piece as my favorite blanks, but that is me.
To many of impatient casters they like a faster rod and if I’m casting large hoppers they are great, but I tend to fish small driy flies.

So purpose and preference

Mike

Bill Falconer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have purchased several of these but have not had
> time to build them yet. They feel great. I can
> tell you that the carbon air conventional blanks
> I've built...are special. I'll post some
> reactions once I get them built.


Hello Bill. Did you end up building those CarbonAir fly rod blanks you mentioned? If so, how did they perform?

I will be wrapping a Epitome/Carbon Air 9ft. 5 wt fly rod with the "Medium" action. I will also be wrapping a Gamma Alpha 8.5 ft 4 wt. I will have reviews in a few months.

I have received the Epitome and in weighed in a 1.4 ounces, so astoundingly light, and mine weighed less than the listed weight.

david taylor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I will be wrapping a Epitome/Carbon Air 9ft. 5 wt
> fly rod with the "Medium" action. I will also be
> wrapping a Gamma Alpha 8.5 ft 4 wt. I will have
> reviews in a few months.
>
> I have received the Epitome and in weighed in a
> 1.4 ounces, so astoundingly light, and mine
> weighed less than the listed weight.

David,

I'm looking forward to your review. I'm also very interested in building a Carbon Air 9' 5wt in the medium action. There doesn't seem to be a whole lot written about the Carbon Air and there isn't much information on the NFC site. Are you planning to use the NFC carbon grips on these builds?

Ed

No, I am going with cork grips and Recoil single foot guides, a Struble reel seat.

david taylor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No, I am going with cork grips and Recoil single
> foot guides, a Struble reel seat.


David,

What guide spacing format are you using for the NFC Carbon Air 9' 5 wt? When I looked at the guide spacing database on the NFC website they didn't have any entries for the Carbon Air fly rods.

Ed

I just ordered a 9-5 Carbon Air in the Moderate action. Looking forward to building on this blank. Following...

Ed A:

Yes, I also saw that they did not have spacing listed yet. I emailed them and they said you could use the recommendations on a similar existing NFC rod.

Thus, I guess one can use the spacing from the Gamma Alpha 590-4, which has 9 guides, or the LMX FAF 905 which has 10 guides, both inclusive of stripper but not tip top. I think I would prefer the 10 guide version.

Or I may pull spacing guidelines from an Epic 590G listed on Epic's website, which also has 10 guides. I have built the LMX FAF905 as well as an Epic 690G, both which have 10 guides, and I think the spacing of either would be just fine, and are fairly close to each other, and both have worked just fine for me, the NFC being the stiffer of the two rods.

I am awaiting a reel seat insert for my Struble U20 hardware and just received 9 Recoil single foot guides and one PacBay size 12 titanium stripper. I like the aesthetic of stepped down running guides, so I am going 12, 4, 3, 2, 2, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1

Thanks David T. I think I’m going to do the same thing in regards to the guide spacing for the 9-5 Carbon Air.

Ed

Ed:

Given the Carbon Air blank's extreme light weight, my blank is 1.4 ounces, I decided to go with guides that are also on the light weight side of things, and single foot guides to minimize the number of wraps and epoxy treatments, which also can reduce weight. Recoil light wire single foots are too thin in my opinion for a 5 weight, so I went with the standard Recoil. If I had used double foot snake guides from, let's say, Snake or Batson, I would go with light wire ones. Of course it is all personal preference.

I built the carbon air 6 months ago using the standard REC single foot guides on this 9’ moderate action rod I place 2 stripping guides and 8 single foot guides. I was a beautiful rod but faster than a 9’ 5wt gamma alpha and more like a beta. I have the rod to a guide to use and it broke within 2 months. It broke in the second section and when I asked the guide he said the client had been fishing with it for a couple hour on the float and it just snapped. Looking at the break it was a clean break about 4” beneath the first ferrule.

My conclusion was I don’t know why it broke, but a beautiful casting fast action rod.
Mikr

david taylor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ed:
>
> Given the Carbon Air blank's extreme light weight,
> my blank is 1.4 ounces, I decided to go with
> guides that are also on the light weight side of
> things, and single foot guides to minimize the
> number of wraps and epoxy treatments, which also
> can reduce weight. Recoil light wire single foots
> are too thin in my opinion for a 5 weight, so I
> went with the standard Recoil. If I had used
> double foot snake guides from, let's say, Snake or
> Batson, I would go with light wire ones. Of
> course it is all personal preference.

I think I’m going to use the REC UL snakes on my 5wt Carbon Air build. I like the look of the snakes versus the SF guides. You seem to be a big fan of the REC guides.

Have you ever used the Cerecoil tip tops on a saltwater build? I was contemplating using them on a 9wt build but they look a little heavy and the loop diameters seem kinda large for the running guides I plan to use.

Ed:

I have only made one rod for salt, a 9ft. 8 wt NFC LMX, and I put Recoil double-foot snake guides on it, of course the standard weight, given it is an 8wt rod. I like Recoils as I like their bounce-back pliability and they are light, and I like the titanium finish. Of course they are not cheap. I have used PacBay guides on a number of past rods, and they were just fine. And cheaper.

REC's website recommendation is to use their Recoil thin wire guides on fly rods of 0 to 4 wt. With double-foot snake I think you could use the thin wire on a 5wt, but I have to say their thin wire guides are quite thin, which made me concerned about breakage. You may want to order one to check it out. I put the standard weight Recoil single foot on my 6 wt rod and they look great and perform well.

For my 5wt Carbon Air, given I am using single foot Recoils, I went with standard wire. I did contemplate light wire double foot, but prefer to make fewer wraps.

You can get a slight harmonic with Recoil guides, depending on the line you use, especially if it is textured. Some hear it, some say they do not.

I have used the Recoil tip tops for the two fly rods I have built with Recoil guides. They are a bit clunky looking, but I did not weight them. I wanted the color match with the guides.

I use a lot of the rec single foot guides, but not the Tiptops, they are to heavy and bulky. I use Snake brand and lately the Seaguide IRIS coated tiptops, Both are lighter than the REC titanium
.
Mike

For the complaints about Recoil's harmonic. The answer is, the RSFX version.... That's all I am buying now.