Sorry if this is a double post. I typed all this out just for it to not submit.

Basically I only ever build fly rods and wanted to build some spinning rods. How do you guys determine how big of a spinning guide(s) you need?

For example, here’s one of the blanks I’m building: [northforkcomposites.com]
For those who don’t wanna click the link, it’s a light power blank that’s 72 inches.

I was thinking about using either: [mudhole.com]

Or:

[mudhole.com]

What’s a general rule of thumb for deciding what size these spinning guides should be? Do I also need two that taper down in size to the running guides? I’m assuming that I would use two then taper down to a running guide that’s a size 5 then the rest size 4 to the tip?

For what it’s worth these are the runners I plan on using: [mudhole.com]

Also, if you guys have suggestions for other guide trains let me know. Building spinning tackle is a whole new world for me!
Thanks!

Al,
That info is in the Libary top right corner of this site. Article title: New Guide Concept for Spinning Rods.

Check out Anglers Resource Website. They have online software on there that helps with layout using either New Guide Concept or K Concept layouts. Also, I recently found this chart that I hadn't seen before. It gives some good starting points for layouts for different length rods but for sure you'd want to tweak your layout for your particular blank that you are building.

Here are the links:

Anglers Resource: [anglersresource.net]

Here is the chart: [merricktackle.com]

Thank you for that Kevin! Can you help me learn what the difference is on a spinning guide that for example says 5.5M or 5.5L?

Medium and low height.

Line type and size is the # 1 determining factor when it comes to choosing spinning guide transitional ring sizes with spool diameter coming in a distant second .

Spencer Phipps Wrote:
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> Medium and low height.


Thanks spencer. I’m a bit confused though on guide placement here. The nfc guide spacing is a bit different than the merrick tackle chart shown above. Who’s spacing should I follow in this situation? I’m assuming the nfc spacing isn’t based on those k guides so should I use those Fuji guides?

There are many concepts, and going back to the library you will find the static guide placement system that works on all rods, all actions, and you never need a guide chart again. Some guide charts haven't really changed much since the 70's, but guides sure have.

For spin I use KLH 20-K:LH10-KL5.5M spaced according to the KR software on the Anglers Resource site, then locate the runners (size depends on preference and whether you want knots to pass, line type and pound test-for braid less than 15 pound test I use size 4 runners to retain as fast recovery time for the blank as possible) based on the two line stress test also described on the site. I do not test cast because the software places the three reduction guides so well I never could improve on the performance. I agree with Spencer-get rid of the charts and learn the craft. The KLH series of guides simply work, and the software does too. And so does the two line stress test. Obviously there are other solutions that work , but I've described mine.

Except for the reduction guides there is really no difference between fly rods and any other rods.

This is a link to Fuji’s KR Concept.
This helps with determining the guides to choose according to the type/size of line you’ll use.

[www.fujitackle.eu]

1) Determine the position of the butt guide (1st choke guide)

The "KR Concept" butt guide is a super high frame type to avoid line slap, and the ring position is higher than the conventional butt guide, so the mounting position is different from the "New Guide Concept". First, determine the number of guides to be used and the total number of guides, keeping in mind that line resistance should be kept as low as possible. Next, straighten out the center line of the reel to make an intersection with the rod. Place the butt guide on the rod and slide it slowly from the reel side toward the tip. When the top of the butt guide ring touches the center line, that point is the position of the butt guide. If the butt guide is positioned too close to the reel, it may reduce flight distance or cause entanglement in casting. Conversely, if the butt guide is too far from the reel, cast control, rod power, and hooking power may decrease.

Pics to help…

For my spinning guides I now simplify them quite a bit from a few years ago.
I start with the first guide being a high match guide in either size 20 or 16 depending on the line I will use.
Then, I drop down to a size 12 and then I go down to size 6 or 5 runners to the tip.
I place the first guide at 19 inches from the face of the reel and then place the rest to get a smooth line flow when the rod is in a loaded parabolic shape. i.e. you want to have enough guides, but not so many to cause the line to follow the contour of the loaded blank.
You need no less, and you need no more.

Please do not make the mistake of putting too many guides on the rod. For a blank like you have, I would start with 6 guides and add just enough to have the line follow the bent contour of a loaded blank. i.e. Just enough guides and not even a single extra one.

This is essentially the same thing that Michael is recommending.

p.s.
If you might use both braid and mono or fluro and or heavier line - then err on the side of a larger guide to be able to accomodate both line types. If, for example you are only going to be using lighter braid, then you can reduce every thing a bit, because there is no need for the larger guides in the sizes listed. You still need the guide reduction, but for limp light line the over all size of the guides can be reduced.

Best wishes.

2) Temporarily determine the position of the belly guide After temporarily attaching the top guide, temporarily determine the position of the belly guide approximately in the middle between the butt guide and the top guide.
3) Determine the position of the 2nd and 3rd choke guides Place the 2nd and 3rd choke guides in good balance on the straight line that connects the ring center of the 1st choke guide and the ring center of the belly guide. *However, the straight line does not necessarily correspond to the ring center of each of the 2nd and 3rd choke guides. Choke too fast will cause a decrease in flight distance and entanglement in the cast, so adjust according to the lure, line, and rod action you are using. The selection and layout of guides that can line choke well are important.
4) Determine the position of the tip guide Decide the ring size of the tip guide considering the lure, line and rod action to be used. Position each tip guide from the belly guide to the top guide, gradually narrowing the gap.
5) Adjust the overall balance of the guide Once all the guide positions are decided, check the rod bend and line angle, and if it looks unnatural, move the belly guide position. When the belly guide is moved, the positions of the 2nd and 3rd choke guides and the tip guide are also readjusted accordingly.

The amount of guides recommended for KR Concept for any rod is the length +1. A 6’ rod recommendation would be 7 guides + tiptop, but of course only use what’s needed.

Once you get the butt guide in the correct position the other reduction guides should be lined up in a straight line, like a bullseye.

Wow thank you guys for the information. The Fuji concept is all news to me and I haven’t used in a spinning rod in years. Some of the spots I have been fishing have been calling for a good spinning rod so I can’t wait to try this all out!

What line class are you using, and is it mono or braid?

I'm guessing for this rod I'd start with a high frame 25 for the butt guide, a third of the way up from the centre of the reel seat to the tip.

And simply go down in sizes, the amount of guides is determined by a stress disribution test.

The length of the rod has nothing to do with the placement of the first guide. Al, I would study the Fuji KR system/software and follow it. It works. Piece of cake.