Hey Guys,
I'm going to be building my 1st split grip spinning rod using cork if that matters and not sure on the reel seat location from the butt of the rod. The rod is a 7' NorthFolk SJ 703-1 (X-Ray LMX) blank, reel seat is an American Tackle APEX G2 Uni Lock Hood, and the reel is a PISCIFUN Carbon X 3000.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
Rick

It is a matter of preference. Ream your rear grips and slide them on the blank then choose how much blank you would like to expose. On that blank I would like to have the bottom of the reel seat 12ish inches from the butt of the blank.

There’s no hard and fast rule. Play with it by doing a couple of mock ups and see where it’s comfortable. My guess is you’ll end up at around 10”, give or take from the butt of the blank to the center of the seat.

Daryl Ferguson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There’s no hard and fast rule. Play with it by
> doing a couple of mock ups and see where it’s
> comfortable. My guess is you’ll end up at around
> 10”, give or take from the butt of the blank to
> the center of the seat.

This!!!

FWIW my personal spinning rods end up 9 3/4" to center of the reel stem.

You cannot express handle length in inches. None of us grasp and hold the reel seat in the same location. It comes down to where the rod butt needs to hit your forearm at the butt end. I wish more custom builders would study the available research on these type matters. What are you fishing for? What are you casting? RodMaker Volume 25 #5.

.........

Tom Kirkman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You cannot express handle length in inches. None
> of us grasp and hold the reel seat in the same
> location. It comes down to where the rod butt
> needs to hit your forearm at the butt end. I wish
> more custom builders would study the available
> research on these type matters. What are you
> fishing for? What are you casting? RodMaker Volume
> 25 #5.
>
> .........
100% ...I know I did express in inches to the reel stem...and for me that puts the butt in a comfortable position on my forearm ballpark of a couple inches from my elbow. I hold the reel stem between pinky and ring finger. So like Tom says, depends on how ya hold your reel and grip. At this point I don't really deviate much from this with rod length in the 6 -7 ft range. I've tried shorter on shorter rods and longer on longer rods (again talking bass/freshwater) but settled on the above as my go to for most spinning rods. Of course this method may change with some more technique specific builds.

Just built one with an 8" grip for kayak guy. It feels awesome and light even with the short handle.

I'd say 9" would be a good all around length for that rod power and applications.

Tom Kirkman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You cannot express handle length in inches. None
> of us grasp and hold the reel seat in the same
> location. It comes down to where the rod butt
> needs to hit your forearm at the butt end. I wish
> more custom builders would study the available
> research on these type matters. What are you
> fishing for? What are you casting? RodMaker Volume
> 25 #5.
>
> .........

You are referencing method, and I don't dispute what you're saying. But, at the end of the day, when you decide where to put the seat, there will be at a finite distance between the butt and the seat. That's a mathematical fact. You can choose to express it in inches, centimeters, feet, etc..., however you wish. My comment speculated on the resulting distance (the mathematical measurement) AFTER playing around with it (aka method). He may end up half way up the blank when he's finished playing around with it for all I know, but at least he has some ideas on where he may, or may not, want to start based on our replies to his question.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2023 12:12AM by Daryl Ferguson.

Daryl Ferguson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tom Kirkman Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You cannot express handle length in inches.
> None
> > of us grasp and hold the reel seat in the same
> > location. It comes down to where the rod butt
> > needs to hit your forearm at the butt end. I
> wish
> > more custom builders would study the available
> > research on these type matters. What are you
> > fishing for? What are you casting? RodMaker
> Volume
> > 25 #5.
> >
> > .........
>
> You are referencing method, and I don't dispute
> what you're saying. But, at the end of the day,
> when you decide where to put the seat, there will
> be at a finite distance between the butt and the
> seat. That's a mathematical fact. You can choose
> to express it in inches, centimeters, feet,
> etc..., however you wish. My comment speculated on
> the resulting distance (the mathematical
> measurement) AFTER playing around with it (aka
> method). He may end up half way up the blank when
> he's finished playing around with it for all I
> know, but at least he has some ideas on where he
> may, or may not, want to start based on our
> replies to his question.


No, you can't convey handle length in inches, centimeters or any other unit of length. If you do, it'll be different for each person unless they grasp the reel seat the same way you do and have the same length forearm. What you want to do is express where on your forearm or proximity to your elbow you find the best length for the rod butt to reach.

..............

You measure from the back of the reel seat. Where the grip and seat meet.

It is very easy to keep consistent handle lengths this way.

It doesn't matter how the user holds their rod. The handle doenst change. You can ask the user to measure their current favorite rod and deliver the exact same length.

Tom,

I can understand what you are saying. However, it seems like excess for the sake of sounding "more custom".

To accomplish what you are talking, you would need to be in the room or video conferencing the user. Watching them handle a rod and maybe even moving the reel seat on the fly.

It seems simple to ask what their current favorite rod handle lengths is based on butt to reel seat measurements.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2023 10:48AM by Rob Carey.

When I build a rod for someone I let them find a handle length that fits them by moving the reel seat, with a reel in it, up or down the blank until it feels right. I then measure the distance from the butt of the blank to the rear end of the reel seat and that’s expressed in inches or centimeters. I certainly understand that everyone is a little different. However, It seems that the sweet spot for most people using freshwater or light inshore rods is about 8.5” to 10”. A few like it a little longer and a few like it a little shorter. I have one friend, who is a pretty big guy, and he likes very short handles of about 5” no matter the length of the rod. He casts one handed, mostly using his wrists. So handle length is certainly a personal choice, but for most people these rear handle lengths only vary by about 1” around an average length of 9” for a freshwater bass rod. But that’s just my experiences.
Norm

Norm, your first paragraph is precisely what I was stating in my previous post. You have a methodology by which you figure out where you, or your customer wants the reel seat, handle, whatever. Once you have that spot, you take a measurement and express that measurement in inches, centimeters, or whatever your preference.

Yes Daryl, but you never stated the methodology you used to get YOUR dimension. Or if you did, I missed it. All I saw was 10 inches. What Tom and Norman are trying to convey is the method by which the dimension is determined, and it's about ergonomics based on the rod user. His dimensions and preferences. I often advise builders who ask this question to pattern the rod after one that the user already likes. For the same technique.

For myself, if I were building a steelhead rod for use in the winter with bulky clothes the distance from the butt to the reel stem would be different than it would be for a rod that would never be used in the winter. It depends on the technique, conditions, and user dimensions and preferences for issues possibly like balance. I'm not even sure all seats are the same, so I talk about the distance from the butt to the reel stem.

Rob Carey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You measure from the back of the reel seat. Where
> the grip and seat meet.
>
> It is very easy to keep consistent handle lengths
> this way.
>
> It doesn't matter how the user holds their rod.
> The handle doenst change. You can ask the user to
> measure their current favorite rod and deliver the
> exact same length.

That's fine if ya only build with one style and size reel seat, in the same configuration i.e up locking or downlocking. If your building with different reel seats then there's way too many variables. Does everyone hold their spinning reel stem between the same 2 fingers?

To say ya can't put a measurement on it is well idk. It's always gonna have a measurement. Theres gonna be variables. But there's gonna be an average and that's a good starting point. Just like 27x NGC and 32 in from the butt stripper guide placement on a fly rod. ** Full disclosure i know next to nothing about fly rod builds and in researching a first build recently I, I came across this 32" stripper location**
Weren't these numbers arrived at by taking averages. So what's the average from the reel stem. Reel stem dictates how anyone holds a spinning rod

Take the reel seat you re gonna use with reel locked in, make some tape arbors so to allow the reel seat to slide up and down on the blank or do it on a scrap piece of blank to keep for future personal or customer use. Add a scrap piece of a grip to the butt to imitate the butt end of the grip for dia. (Maybe not even necessary) position that butt where it feels good on your forearm to elbow. Take final measurement. .....or just take your current favorite rod grip and measure butt to center of reel stem and run with it.

But really none of this really matters unless it's a rodbuild for typical bass/freshwater/inshore cast and retrieve lures type. Surf, boat jigging rods, trolling, it's all different...so I guess ya really can't put a measurement on it lol. And now we're full circle



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2023 11:32AM by Matt Ruggie.

A 10 inch rear grip may hit one person at the elbow, another at the 2/3rd distance behind the wrist and another somewhere else. State where the butt end hits your forearm not how long it is in inches or whatever. That's the best way to express it.

............

You are correct, reel seat orientation, up locking vs down locking does factor into determine overall handle length for spinning rods, but not for casting rods. I build most of my spinning rods with down locking seats, except for those who want up locking. One of the reason I started buildings rods was because commercial spinning rods at the time were all up locking seats, and I disliked up locking reel seats. This is my preference, and is another thing that makes a custom rod custom.
Norm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2023 12:26PM by Norman Miller.

The article in Rodmaker broke a lot of new ground but even before it came out I never expressed handle length in inches. If somebody would ask how long something like an 8 foot popping rod handle should be I would tell them that I like it to reach back to within an inch of the elbow. Use whatever length reaches that point on you. That is the important thing--- not how long it is but where it makes contact on YOU.

Seems to me that guys that hold spin reels more forward prefer uplocking w/ shorter grear grips and guys that hold more towards the butt like downlocking w/ longer rear grip. In relation to the reel seat. Makes sense cause it keeps more of your hand off the locking nut and puts the butt in that sweet spot from the elbow into your forearm.

So my personal rods might technically have 7-8 inch
rear grips which sounds short but being that I hold spin reels with 3 fingers (4 on occasion) in front of the stem it's still hits the sweet spot.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2023 12:54PM by Matt Ruggie.

Michael, you’re correct that I did not give a specific method. I just said “play around with it”. I then said “my guess is you’ll end up around 10” give or take”. But, I never suggested that 10” is where he should put it. It was, again, just a guess on where he might end up.

But, I think we’re all pretty much in violent agreement (as we used to say in the corporate world). I think Tom is reading into my posts that I’m suggesting to the OP where to put his seat. I am not. All I said was that 10” is my GUESS, give or take, a likely landing spot after he’s played around with it himself. As far as how to go about getting to that measurement, well, he can go about it as he thinks is best.

As for my specific method, I just went through this with my nephew. He lives an hour from me so I asked him for a couple of measurements before. I start his build. First, I asked him to measure from his wrist to 3/4s up his forearm (I wanted a baseline). Then, I asked him to measure the distance from the butt to the reel seat on his favorite 7’ rod. There are a couple of other measurements I’ll ask for but, hopefully, you get the gist. My point is I have to have a way to transpose to the rod blank. What am I supposed to do with “Half way up my forearm Uncle Daryl”? By asking for the measurement of his forearm I at least have something to go by if he were to say that.