Received a bundle of old beater rods from a buddy for parts and refurb on the nicer ones. One of the rods is an old AllStar. I was able to remove the guides and they were in very good shape so I buffed them for reuse. Since I do all this refurb for free, I decided to gamble on this old beater.

I laid down some thread epoxy mixed with custom VooDoo gold dust at the guide positions and let it cure for about 4 hours or until it became somewhat of a putty consistency. Then I was able to embed the guides (one double foot butt and 6 single foot) into the "putty" and align them properly. The next morning they were permanently stuck to the blank.

After two more coats of the gold epoxy they look pretty good. They have a slight football shape because of the process, but for a beater experiment it may just work.

Has anyone on this board done this and what can I expect for rod performance?

Most likely the guides will pop off the rod in use. Only PermaGloss seems to have the strength to hold guides fast to a rod blank without breaking loose. You'll just have to try it and see what happens.

.............

I like the way you think Mark, definitely keep us posted.

The next step might be to try some paste epoxy in the same fashion

How little wrapping could be done and still hold, starting from the ankle of the guide wrapping to the toes could wrapping only half a guide still hold strong?

@Tom, have you done similar experiments with PG? Is there a similar period of the hardening of the PG where you could place a guide and it would stay?

Do typical finishes play well enough with PG that we could do what Mark did to initially get a guide on and then put a few coats of PG for strength?

What is the relative volume difference you could get away with, wrapping the "standard" way, finishing with epoxy vs PG?

I would imagine as all things add up that the savings alone might not necessarily be significant, but using premium Ti components and lightest everything else saving a couple grams in epoxy out to the tip of the rod might add up to that much less weight.

Building rods in MA, Building the community around the world

Hello El.

Here is an article on threadless guide wraps

Vol/Issue..........Article......................Author............Page.
9/6 Guide Wraps, Threadless. By Bill Stevens. 10

I remember when Bill did this article, it was an eyeopener for a lot of folks (Me for one), I didn't think he could do it, but he did, and I think (but am not shure) that Tom had something to do with it.

Tight Wraps & Tighter Lines.

Bob,

New Bern, NC.

Thanks guys. I am going to give it back the my buddy and let him fish it. He is like a bull in a china cabinet when it comes to fishing rods. We will put some redfish bodies on it and see what happens. I'm struggling a bit with why would someone ever do this other than to save some time thread wrapping. I've been experimenting with pearlized thread epoxy using VooDoo and noticed that the thread virtually disappears if you add enough pearl.

Will hopefully report back soon.

El Bolinger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I like the way you think Mark, definitely keep us
> posted.
>
> The next step might be to try some paste epoxy in
> the same fashion
>
> How little wrapping could be done and still hold,
> starting from the ankle of the guide wrapping to
> the toes could wrapping only half a guide still
> hold strong?
>
> @Tom, have you done similar experiments with PG?
> Is there a similar period of the hardening of the
> PG where you could place a guide and it would
> stay?
>
> Do typical finishes play well enough with PG that
> we could do what Mark did to initially get a guide
> on and then put a few coats of PG for strength?
>
> What is the relative volume difference you could
> get away with, wrapping the "standard" way,
> finishing with epoxy vs PG?
>
> I would imagine as all things add up that the
> savings alone might not necessarily be
> significant, but using premium Ti components and
> lightest everything else saving a couple grams in
> epoxy out to the tip of the rod might add up to
> that much less weight.


The magazine covered the process in either Volume 9 #5 or #6. PermaGloss will bond guides to a rod blank. We put one in use for surf fishing and almost 20 years out it's still holding up. Similar set-ups with epoxy failed nearly first or second time out of the gate.

I about you save any weight with either because for the same volume of finish used thread probably weighs less, even when coated with any type of finish.

..........

@Robert - when you say it was an eye opener what do you mean? What did you glean from the results as it pertains to building (or was it simply the fact that it was done at all to your surprise)?

@Tom - how many coats of PG could you get away with on a wrapped guide? Seeing how thin it is compared to 1 coat of high build or 2 coats of low build I would imagine 5-10 coats could still result in a thinner finish.

It surely must've been something special to be part of the golden days of rod building, I feel like I always miss the boat by a generation or two haha

Building rods in MA, Building the community around the world

2 coats of PG will suffice. 3 is better. It will never crack, yellow, peel, etc. Hard as a rock but flexible as well. It won't look like epoxy, of course, but more like the old varnished wraps of old. I normally use as many as 5 coats just to get a smoother surface. Yes, it's still much thinner than what you'd considered a standard depth epoxy finished wrap.

.........

Next up, PG mixed with color pearl dust. How did you get the guides to adhere to the blank with PG?

Mark, PG is many times better adhesive than epoxy wrap finish, just wait till you compare the ease of a guide and wrap removal between the two. you can usually remove all the guides on a rod with epoxy with one razor blade. Every second or third guide with PG needs a new blade.

Hello El.

When this happened, I had tried several ways of temporarily putting a guide back on after it was pulled out, while in the field, but all the way's I tried failed.
For instance several kinds of glues and tapes, but 1 or 2 fish is about the best I could get back then, once the rod was bent a few times the guide would fall off.

The PG is pliable enough to not lose the guides.

After Bill showed me at the EXPO is the first time I used PG.

But because it is not something that you can't do in the field easily I could not use it for that but it opened my eyes to other types of chemicals.
For years I worked on military aircraft, so I looked at some of the stuff we used on the aircraft, the potting compounds were best for holding guides on (although not to good looking).

Thats also when I started working with composite materials like the ones we used on H-46 SR&M stub wings but the composites at work were the kind you need a pressure or vacuum oven to cure back then.

Tight Wraps & Tighter Lines.

Bob,

New Bern, NC.

Mark, you wouldn't happen to be in MA would ya haha I'd love to connect and talk rod building experiments

Tom I can dig 2 coats and one for good luck, that has gotta reduce the weight somewhat all the way through the train.

Building rods in MA, Building the community around the world

This is what the end product looks like. BTW, I caught 2 really nice choupique, two small long nose gar and a fat little bass on this set up this morning. I think the only way to get the guides off is to cut them off with a razor blade. Sorry for the sloppy epoxy application. I'll get it right on one of my Xray blanks. I'm thinking dark purple pearl.

Mark, you must be from Louisiana.
Norm

You are correct, Norm. What do you think about this guide application? Be brutally honest please.

What's the point of this exercise? I know exactly what would happen if I did this. I'd take it fishing, hook a new state record large mouth, and about the second I got ready to net it, the rod would snap in half, breaking my line in the process, and proceed to plummet to the bottom of the lake, taking my trophy bass with it.

Daryj, the only point is to push the envelope of rod building. It may create other ideas and innovations. Its quick, strong, and it works. I landed two 5# behemoth bowfin beasts that fought more than a 10# bass ever could. The bond on the guides is strong. I can't say I will start making more builds with this system, but I'm sure it will lead to more different techniques.

I have no problem with people experimenting and trying something different. It’s fun and makes a good conversation piece. Personally I’m old and old fashion, and find wrapping a guide is pretty easy, and I know a thread wrap will never break free. If you like the look, wrap in a white thread and then finish with epoxy containing the VooDoo dust. The white thread will basically disappear and look like it’s only held on with the colored epoxy.
Norm