I recently inquired about the specs of a rod, including weight. I got a reply from customer service. However, the weight response raised an eyebrow with me. They gave me the answer of "4.65oz, but can vary a little as we put balance each rod". Do they mean ballast? This is not a blank outfit. It's a production rod outfit so we're talking about a ready to fish rod. Anyone care to speculate as to what they're doing, and why? I recently inquired here about balancing a rod (grip placement) and it was pretty unanimous that you build it for comfort, not balance. I'm just curious why a rod outfit (their rods are north of $500) would "put balance each rod". Again, assuming they meant to type "put balance in each rod".

Hard to day. Attempting to "balance" a naked blank that will eventually have a reel, line and lure added makes it difficult to design and build to a certain balance. Frankly, I think rod balance is extremely over-rated. Build what you need to do the job and build as light as you and let everything else fall where it falls. That's really all you can do.

.................

I agree with Tom. I will never add weight to balance a rod. I did adjust the spacing slightly between split grips to balance a drop shot rod. That seems to be the technique where balance is a factor. About every other way to fish is dynamic in regards to balance. I used to think more about balance during a build until I realized that light, vertical presentations are the only time I notice balance when fishing.

Tom Kirkman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hard to day. Attempting to "balance" a naked blank
> that will eventually have a reel, line and lure
> added makes it difficult to design and build to a
> certain balance. Frankly, I think rod balance is
> extremely over-rated. Build what you need to do
> the job and build as light as you and let
> everything else fall where it falls. That's really
> all you can do.
>
> .................


That's the same advice you gave me in the thread where I was inquiring about grip placement. I built the rod without giving balance another thought and it turned out great. Extremely light and does exactly what I want. Maybe, I'll send another note inuiring why they "add balance".

Kendall, I'm with you on that. I will NEVER add weight to a rod. I might would slide the reel seat forward or back a hair if I was really unhappy with the feel, but I'm not adding weight. I want my rods to be as light as possible.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2023 09:17PM by Daryl Ferguson.

Agree with Tom and Kendall , I will never add weight of any kind regardless of where the weight is added to balance a rod . Component choices , size , type and where they are placed is a huge part of ending up with a super performing and feeling rod build in the end . Build it as light as humanly possible and don't forget to match the reel correctly.

Daryl,
Pretty easy to do this actually.
Essentially, they will take a typical reel of say 7 ozs for a spinning rod and add weight to the butt of the rod until a particular build type balances with a neutral appearance.
Then, they will use that recipe for the rest of their production rod for this particular model.

In times past, I essentially did the same thing for about 5 years. In general, it typically added 1/2 - 1 1/2 ozs of weight to the rod build. No question about it, one could use a very short rear grip if one wanted to, and still have a balanced rod.

A rod like this worked very very well and was a pleasure to use- albeit heavier than a no weight added rod with a longer rear grip to achieve similar balance.

Since that 5 year stint - I have discontinued adding any weight to the rod. If I want a particular rod balanced, I will tape on a particular reel to the rod and move it up and down until the rod balances with the reel taped to the bare rod blank.

Then, I build the rod, with the rear grip length and or butt distance to match the initial setup and almost always, the completed rod is dead on balanced.

I very much prefer to fish with a well balanced rod for the type fishing that I do. If it means a 12 inch handle instead of an 8 inch handle so be it.

I still get equal casting distance, since I routinely cast with two hands, with one had gripping the extreme butt section of the rod to maximize the acceleration of the rod tip for maximum distance - and that is the same whether the reel is placed 6 inches in front of the butt cap or 12 inches in front of the butt cap.

Note:
I also never match a given rod with a given reel.
The reason is simple. Reels come and go, but a quality rod may last for 50 years of good use. Thus, I never want to tie myself into a single particular reel. It simply doesn't fit my type of fishing rod usage and owner ship.
I go for a Medium setting that is right on for a typical reel height and weight. Then, it may be a bit butt heavy if the reel is taller and or heavier, and it may be a bit tip heavy if the reel is smaller and or lighter - and that is fine with me.

I have never had an issue with a rod not being able to cast the distance that I wish to fish. And, it makes little difference to me, whether I am using a larger heavier, or a smaller lighter reel.

But, to each his own.

Take care

Build as light as possible / feasible and let the “balance” (an open-ended, subjective term) fall where it may.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

roger wilson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Note:
> I also never match a given rod with a given reel.
>
> The reason is simple. Reels come and go, but a
> quality rod may last for 50 years of good use.
> Thus, I never want to tie myself into a single
> particular reel. It simply doesn't fit my type of
> fishing rod usage and owner ship.
> I go for a Medium setting that is right on for a
> typical reel height and weight. Then, it may be a
> bit butt heavy if the reel is taller and or
> heavier, and it may be a bit tip heavy if the reel
> is smaller and or lighter - and that is fine with
> me.
>
>
> But, to each his own.

I do the exact opposite, and make no claim that my approach is better than yours. Yes, to each his own. I usually have a reel in hand before I start a build. I at least want the guide heights to match and the thread color to not conflict. This does lock me into durable reels, annual maintenance, and buying wear parts before stock disappears. I think I actually save money over time by buying fewer reels. In reality, most contemporary baitcasters are pretty close in line guide height. I have a couple of reels that I will miss when they wear out (crankbait gear ratios have disappeared), and others that I won’t miss. There are no features being offered now that work better than what are on one of my 2006 vintage reels. It outcasts my two recently purchased, better grade Shimano’s. I just bought my first parts for that reel. Your approach keeps you from having be an amateur reel technician, though. You’ve pursued the intricacies of power wrappers, electronic controls, and such while I’ve learned reels. Everything is a trade-off.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2023 12:57AM by Kendall Cikanek.

I was told Lamiglas put a balance weight in their tube butts of the XMG 50 rods, they averaged about an ounce to 1 1/2 oz. more than comparable unweighted rods because of it.

That was commonly seen as a real dark period for Lamiglas in the PNW fisheries. I found myself having to defend bringing my much older Lami’s on fishing trips. There was so much breakage that it was often necessary to explain that the rods in question were twenty or more years old and probably wouldn’t explode and impale others with carbon shards while causing the sinking of boats, the slaughter of low flying birds, and the extinction of whales. Reality likely got exaggerated into mythology and design and component choices also got curious. I never heard of this weighting paradigm, but nothing would surprise me regarding that era. That amount of added weight is a lot of ballast, if true.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2023 09:01PM by Kendall Cikanek.

I generally agree with Tom's original response, and based on my experience, if balance is important then the best way to achieve it is with reel selection and rod length. It's not possible to balance a powerful 7 foot rod which has a relatively heavy reel on it without adding a lot of weight. I tried this once and almost lost the rod/reel over the side on an aggressive cast when it torqued out of my hands.

My primary objectives are to build light and with the best ergonomics.

1)ergonomics
2)weight
3)balance

in order of importance, IMHO

Rick, yup!

This may not always be the case, but so far I've built the rods per advice here which is to go for as light as possible and be comfortable. The result in every case thus far has been a well balanced rod without doing a thing to it.

I have not weighted rods before - but when I built my challenge rod for the IBRC, that 7'6 blank was SOOOO tip-heavy, and building it as a general purpose bass rod I felt it had to have some balance - even with a 10" handle. I ended up needing to put about 1.5 oz in the butt to give it balance....

Michael Ward Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have not weighted rods before - but when I built
> my challenge rod for the IBRC, that 7'6 blank was
> SOOOO tip-heavy, and building it as a general
> purpose bass rod I felt it had to have some
> balance - even with a 10" handle. I ended up
> needing to put about 1.5 oz in the butt to give it
> balance....

I, having built on the same blank, got a good balance (just under the front of a mounted shimano calcutta reel). This only happened because, through my inexperience, I put gobs of epoxy inside the grips and handles of the " Tsuka " assembly. The rod by itself weighs about 7.5 ounces as I recall.

Generally I build a rod to be light. I only build fly rods. Most fly rod blanks for a 9ft rod will be 1.5 to 3 oz, depending on the rod's line weight. Fly rods reel seats can vary in weight from .75 to 1.5 ozs, but so long as they are 1 oz. or so I am fine. Grip is usually around 12 - 14 grams, or slightly less than half an oz. Throw in guides, wrap and epoxy and you wind up with a finished rod that is 2.5 to 4 oz.

I would never add weight to the butt or anywhere to influence balance. One can do that later with the reel and line they choose.

Fly rod and a bass rod are very different things in how they are fished and thus how balance would come into play or not

*NOTE* I had started typing this up over the past few days before this thread was started, I want to add at the top here a couple things I think are important and are common from just about all the threads I've looked into about this.

First everybody has their own thoughts/ feelings/experience on the matter and have the right to hold and express them. We ought to listen and think critically about the claims being made by all positions taken regardless of our current stance and respectfully disagree if we happen to disagree.

Balance appears to only be a concern for slack/semi slack line techniques - essentially only concerned with balance for bottom contact techniques. It's more of a concern for longer and typically more powerful rods. People will say things like "yeah but when your casting..." nope - we're not talking about casting. People will say "the lure weight changes so..." nope - means absolutely nothing for bottom contact slack line techniques. Some will say "just make the grip longer" uuuhhh sure, to a degree theres a *balance* there ;) but there's no point in buying a 7'6 rod to make a 16 inch grip in the name of balance - that's unwieldy and doesnt helpbif the rid still just isn't balanced. "Yeah but weight to stiffness..." well I could link to a 12 page thread about sensitivity but I won't, I'll just say that weight behind added behind our hands will have minimal impact on "sensitivity" in terms of vibrations and would actually add "sensitivity" in terms of longer rods detecting bites better. Here's what I had already started with along with the additions over the past couple days:

Okay guys, I've been reading back through our threads here and starting to explore (stalk) some other forums and I've seen over the years people talk about balancing a rod by adding weight to the butt. I've been reading for hours and hours over the past couple weeks about this to learn from what everybody on all 3 sides have to say.

I've seen some say without a doubt they will add weight if necessary ( almost always technique dependent) and others say this is crazy. I've seen people say there's really no need for titanium guides given their price and others say (at least for some specific applications) they're worth 100× their weight in tungsten if not for anything but their weight reduction alone.

Now I'm new here and I'm hoping we can have this discussion and keep the peace, because some of the posts over the years end up getting a bit heated. Some things I've bumped into have me leaning towards adding weight making more sense for appropriate techniques. I found a post from SEVENTEEN years ago from another forum (still active) and it really drove the point home for me.

A forum goer stated:

"what's a gram or two in the big scheme of things, right?

Here's something for you to try...

Take one of your rods with or without a reel on it and then balance it (tape lead weights on the butt until it balances) at the reel on a fulcrum. Now, tape a penny (2.5 grams after 1982) to the tip top and re-balance the rod... How much weight was required to compensate for the penny? I just did this in the garage to get a base line comparison. I Took an MBR784 (MH 6'6") and balanced at the reel seat hood and with one little penny, I had to add exactly 3/4 oz of lead to re-balance!! Now try it with a 7' rod if you used a 6'6" rod the first time... it gets worse. And if you have ever added lead or tungsten to a rod butt to balance it, 3/4 oz is a considerable difference and is certainly noticable in pure weight when fishing all day."

They advocated for titanium guides referencing the above experiment and that Ti reduces the amount of weight needed to balance a rod. They said that they add weight to balance rods at 45 degrees neutral in hand for certain techniques.

Here is a quote from a post here from 15 years ago

***"Re: Sensitivity + Weight
Posted by: Steve Gardner (---.nc.res.rr.com)
Date: June 02, 2008 05:24PM

Copied this from a post I placed last year

“while adding weight to balance a rod may take away from its sensitivity, it adds to its bite detection.

Example;
If your rod is tip heavy; its natural tendency is to pull down towards the water and fish.
If a fish lightly picks up you bait just slightly moving off (which often happens while bass fishing in structure) you will not feel the bite as well (or at all) because your rods tip is trying to go the direction of the fish anyway. The only thing stopping it are the restraints being put on it by your hand and wrist.

If you rod is tip light; its natural tendency is float up and away from the fish and water.
Now, “If a fish lightly picks up your bait just slightly moving off” it stops dead the rods tendency to float up and reverses the direction.

This action in itself increases your awareness that something is happening at the end of you line “Increased bit detection”

Also a rod that is tip light allows your hand to be in a more relaxed state while fishing allowing for increased sensitivity and comfort simply because you are not fighting the weight of the rods tip to keep it up out of the water”

Which reduces strain and fatigue to the wrist enabling you to better concentrate on the fishing, and not the pain in you wrist, which by allowing you to focus better on the fishing. Increases bite detection even more.


Copied form a post I made on another site in answer to simular question as Ray's post

I can’t speak for any one else but I balance mine with the reel on, line on, threaded through guides;

What I do is to balance it so that the tip is neutral to minus (tip tends to float up) weight, when held in horizontal positions 3:00 or 9:00 O’clock depending on if you are right or left handed.

That way I know that any angle above that automatically has the rod “tip light”

Now the only rods I do this with are slack line technique rods were I tend to hold the tip up. (Worm, jig, Tube, dropshot, shaky head ECT.)

When fishing tight line techniques (spinner baits, crank baits, buzz baits, top waters, jerk baits ECT.) I do not bother to balance these rods. Some reasons

1-I almost always fish these rods tip down so I tend to make them butt light so the tip floats down instead

2- The lures on tight line techniques create so much drag that it negates the advantages of balancing the rod


Emory;

I do not balance a rod to increase sensitivity. (Although I have seen no proof that it decreases sensitivity in actual field use)

I balance a rod to increase bite detection and comfort.

To me making a rod more bite detectable, that also allows me to concentrate on the fishing because it is not causing undo fatigue, makes it more sensitive"***

There are plenty more I could quote, but I think Steve said it well enough.

There are 59 other threads from here or other forums and the battle rages on through decades. I'm not going to quote any more recent threads, but I'd highly recommend doing some searching and seeing what people have said and done to show why they believe adding weight can be a HUGE benefit on the water.

@Tom - I would like to ask you specifically as an advocate that longer rods are better for detecting bites ( call it sensitivity or call it a 6th sense I don't care what we call it here in this thread - I very specifically mean recognizing when a fish has done something to your lure), how do you *balance* advocating for a longer rod while disregarding the seemingly unmistakable difference in feel/detection/spider sense tingling fishy action when the rod is balanced or unbalanced?

@Daryl - when people say build for comfort and not balance one could argue the two are not mutually exclusive. It's not very comfortable holding a XH or XXH 7'10 flipping stick/heavy worm rod when it's causing your forearm to be constantly tense holding the tip up.

I'd recommend getting a pack of rubber chair leg caps for like $1.23, add washers or quarters into the cap and slide it onto your rods butt. Removable cheap way to experiment with balance and feel the difference yourself.


The only thing I'd add is this - try this experiment to replicate a small tip heavy rod and a wrist/forearm constantly flexed. Hold a spoon between your thumb and fore finger by the very edge as far away from the scoop as possible. Put something in the scoop to add weight, then add a little more.

Now hold the spoon so it's balanced, then add weight. You won't even need to do it again because it'll already go from laying there flat to trying to dive out of your hand. It's way more noticeable when there is a change in weight when the spoon is balanced.

Mathematically speaking a balanced rod/spoon goes from 0 to x amount of weight which is a 100% change. If there is already weight then any additional weight/resistance is not a 100% change and is less noticeable.

Or lifting weights, go from holding no weight to holding one pound and you feel it. Go from holding one pound to holding 19 oz and you might not even know you're holding more than a pound.

Is balance always important- it would appear not to be. Is balance sometimes more important than the lightest build possible- it certainly appears to be to some. Can anybody build any rod they want any way they like, absolutely!

Grace and peace,
El

I've added weight to over half the casting rods I have built. You wouldn't notice as they are still incredibly light. Most times it is 5-10 grams.

For instance, an NFC X 736 with a 10'' split carbon handle needed 7 grams. It went from slightly tip heavy to floating in hand.

I added 15 grams to a 709HM to get it to feel amazingly noble in hand.

Dobbins rods are in excellent example of this. My friend has several and I would think to myself man these are light. Then I would weigh them and they would be 130 to 150 grams. It wasn't that they were extremely light it's that they were balanced.

Any rod under 610 has not needed weight. But longer and powerful rods have felt much better in hand with weight.

I also think moving the reel seat and changing the action is a big mistake. You'd get more change in balance from 5 grams in the but that moving the reel 2". And you keep you fast action tip section.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2023 01:42PM by Rob Carey.