After almost two years from the time I purchased the components to last night when I thought that I had finally completed the rod, I enthusiastically gave it a good look over this morning only to find that I have a couple of spots adjacent to the guide feet on the first two reduction guides where the epoxy is a little thin. The thread in those spots obviously absorbed the epoxy, but the thread is "printing" as it is not entirely covered at those spots. It's a nice NFC blank with Fuji KL-H, KB and KT guides.

After having taken so long (life got in the way) to complete, I was looking for almost perfect. Is this more a cosmetic issue or could this be a functional/structural issue? Either way, I used Pro Kote epoxy, and the product labeling suggests a second coat within 5 days after application of a previous coat. That's not going to happen as I used my last bit of it getting to the point that I did. I would like to fix the situation, but that 5 day deadline will have expired by the time I get more epoxy. Is this 5 day deadline carved in stone?

ProKote is thin. It also takes longer to cure. I just finished a rod with it and still had a very slight tacky feel at the 12 hour mark. Got up this morning (23 hours after second coat) and it was good to go.

Since you don’t have any choice, your question is moot. Personally, it would worry me just having one coat of ProKote. Again, it’s thin to begin with. I would put a second coat on regardless of the number of days between the two coats. And, I would probably try to rough up the first coat with some 200 - 300 grit (or use an Emory board) in hopes of getting better adhesion.

Not all is lost either way. Worst case scenario is you take off the guides and start over.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2023 07:55PM by Daryl Ferguson.

Ernie,
If you roughen-up the surface where the epoxy is sparse - you will hit the thread and you will get the dreaded fuzzies.
I would roughen-up the epoxy that completely covers the thread and avoid the areas not covered by epoxy.
I would use 1000 - 2000 grit paper and wet sand.
Better you get some MMM abrasive paper cloths to go from 400 grit to 4000 grit. Buff like you are shining shoes.
[www.3m.com]
Herb

You probably don't need to worry about a "5 day deadline" and if you do decide to scuff the thread finish before applying a second coat use an ultrafine scuff pad very lightly as already suggested. There is no need to use anything more abrasive.

Ernie,
I have repaired many many rods over the years.

Often, when I do a rod repair, I may replace one or several or all of the guides on a rod.

If I have replaced one or more of the guides that will require to be coated with thread finish, I will look overt the rest of the guides, If I find that the guide wrap finish is looking beat up on the other wraps, I will go over the wraps with a coat of epoxy.

Prior to doing any work on a rod, I go over the rod with soap, water, a scrub brush and a tooth brush.

I let everything dry well before starting the repair work. (I do not like to work on dirty objects, like fishing rods that have been well used and have not been cleaned well between outings. (So, I will do a deep clean of the rod- before ever starting any repair work.)

Dawn detergent and a tooth paste does an excellent job.

So, now, I come to the time of applying thread finish on the replacement guide or guides. If I find that one or more other guides are looking beat on the thread wrap, I will simply apply an additional coat of finish on the existing thread wrap finish.

I don't do anything more than the good clean up with dawn dish soap and a good drying time to be sure that there is no moisture left on the rod.

Now, and then, I will fish with a friend for whom I have repaired a rod some years later. I have never found that there was never any issue with any of the recoat of a guide foot that had been used for some years, and then had had a refinish on them.

i.e. I have found that a good cleaning, and drying has always worked for me to have a good adhesion between an old coat of thread finish and a new coat.

But, this is your choice.

My experience has simply been that the flex coat finish that I use sticks very well to older sound existing finish coats on the fishing rods.

Take care

Thank you for your replies. Just wondering...I hear folks recommend the use of various grades of sand paper to scuff up the finish a little before applying a new coat. I would think that great care is likely needed for this as sand paper doesn't exactly lend itself to the shape and contours of a previously epoxied guide, and likely runs the risk of creating new angles where none previously existed. Can't steel wool do the same job easier and essentially without running the same risk?

Try it. Just remember the goal. You just want to scuff up the finish a bit. You’re not trying to strip paint off your Grandpa’s model A.

Superfine steel wool will work to degloss the finish surface if needed.

Ernie,

You have some great advice above. Here's what I do for my own situations like yours:

* Use painter's tape to mask off the areas at each end of the wrap.
* Employ a Scotch Brite pad in the direction of the wraps to create a water-break-free surface. Use just enough pressure to dull down the finish, not get into removing material or fraying the thread ridges.
* Remove painter's tape and add another thin coat of epoxy.

I base this method on what I learned from Ralph O'Quinn, creator of Rod Bond, about epoxy.

As I understand it, there is a window when epoxy is curing in the first 48 hours or so when Additional Epoxy can still Bond Chemically to the previous epoxy; it becomes One.

Outside that window, you are mating new epoxy to any other type of surface. So, the surface must be prepped for making a new adhesive bond.

This is not to say, IMO, you can't recoat a guide as is from years ago and it won't work and look good. I just trust what I've learned from others. Roger Wilson's step of cleaning with toothpaste and a toothbrush would probably also provide a surface with micro abrasions that would prep old epoxy for new epoxy.

So, my long-winded response comes down to these two concepts I learned from Ralph:

Do you want a Chemical Bond? If so, re-coat within the window (48 hours is what I learned, others may think longer or shorter).
Since a Chemical Bond is not possible in your case, I suggest treating it as a situation like another other when bonding two surfaces: Prep surfaces first for best results.

I need an editor!

Ernie,
With epoxies, a chemical bond will ALWAYS be better than merely a mechanical (abraded) bond. Yes, it would have been preferred to apply another coat of thread finish within 2 days (24 hours = even better) but that is impossible now. However, you are not building composite laminates for NASA here. As Roger mentioned, a THOROUGH cleaning, rinsing and drying of the blank and wraps will allow an additional coat of epoxy to be applied without any ill effects. Obviously, scuffing the surface would be even better but extremely risky = one thread fuzzie and you’ll be cutting off the wraps and starting all over again.
Your other question is related to the first. In this case, it is more of a cosmetic thing than a functional/structural issue; the existing epoxy is already serving its function to lock the positions of the threads; it's just a little “dryer” in some spots than you prefer.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

All the above are good advice. KISS would be to clean and put on another coat. if you only want a thin coat, put some drops of denatured alcohol or acetone into the epoxy mix.

If you want to scuff up the current epoxy use at least a 300 grit paper and avoid anywhere where the threads are exposed.

Five day warning is optimal, but don't worry, and only deal with the guides in question vs doing them all again, unless you believe they are all thin.

Worst case, if it does not look good, you and rewrap the two guides.

And, as always, the rod makers sees all imperfections and magnifies them in his mind. Most others who look at your rod will think it is well finished. Go to a Cabela's or a fly shop and look at some commercial offerings and you will see imperfections.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2023 11:39PM by david taylor.

david taylor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
And, as always, the rod makers sees all
> imperfections and magnifies them in his mind.
> Most others who look at your rod will think it is
> well finished. Go to a Cabela's or a fly shop and
> look at some commercial offerings and you will see
> imperfections.

Truer words were never spoken. I’ve found that since I started building rods, I notice imperfections on rods I likely never would have beforehand.