This may be a dumb question, but I'll ask it anyway. So far I have built on two NFC X-ray blanks, but I have completely finished only one of them. Because of a little controversy related to the ribs on the X-rays in a discussion here in the past, I opted to run thread the length of the decal, apply epoxy to that and let it cure, and then apply the decal and epoxy over the decal. It turned out perfect and looks great. But that whole process was a pain in the neck.

The now built but unfinished rod is similar in that I ran thread the length of the proposed decal(s), and will once again coat that with epoxy, let it cure, apply the decals and coat again with epoxy. I have three more X-rays that I have not started to build yet. My question is this...if I chose not to run thread underneath the decal, but just apply epoxy first and then apply the decal on top of that, is the epoxy always applied 360 degrees around the blank? The rod I am about to finish has a pretty chunky circumference. The decal will eat up about one third of that circumference. Is it ever reasonable to apply epoxy to just the area occupied by the decal without encircling the entire circumference of the blank?

I'm not even sure if it could be done accurately and cosmetically (perhaps taping off the area), but I'm looking for a way to eliminate the vast amount of thread, time, and epoxy that I need with the way I have been doing it!

I would make tape book ends and apply the epoxy all the way around. That way you end up with a nice straight edge on both ends. Just make sure you peel the tape off before the epoxy starts to cure.

I use a steady rest, apply epoxy at both ends while turning the blank to get a clean edge, then come back and cover the remaining areas between the ends always coating the entire circumference. I turn the blank by hand when doing this. it's not hard to get a clean edge. A little practice on a scrap blank goes a long way. It only takes a light coat.

You do not need thread under the epoxy coat. I always apply a coat of epoxy under the decal, even on smooth painted blanks, it's a better adhesion surface.

If you have a powder wrapper just spin the blank at good speed when applying finish. You’ll get a nice clean edge without tape and it’s mess. I spin the blank and apply the finish over the length. Then come back and make long, light lengthwise strokes to help further smooth your application. Then place it in the dryer and let it cure

I just finished a NFC LMX FAF 9t 5wt. I applied a hook keeper just up from the winding check so that the threat started at the winding check on one side of the hook keeper and then wrapped thread on the other side of the hook keeper, Then I measured the size of the decal and placed a similar sized wrap as used on the hook keeper a quarter inch further down the blank than the length of the decal. I then put on two coats of epoxy that was thinned with acetone to a thickness just enough to cover the ridges on the blank. Then I put on the decal and applied two more thin coats of epoxy. Came out well. have a rod drier so I apply epoxy when the rod is spinning on the dryer.

David,
Just wondering, if you just put on one coat of unthinned epoxy, wouldn't you have the same effect with less trouble and an equal finish.
If necessary, just use a bit of gentle heat to thin the finish as it is turning to let is better flow out?

I just don't practice the idea of adding thinner to any epoxy. Rather, I just use a tiny touch of gentle heat - AFTER the finish has been applied - to let if flow if it is at all necessary.

Glad that your method works well for you.

Thank you for your replies. Perhaps I was unclear about my question. I was wondering whether one could get away with applying epoxy to the complete circumference of the blank the total length of the decal. By suggesting the tape, I was wondering if I could essentially tape the blank in such a way that what I have exposed is bare blank just slightly larger than the footprint of the decal. Epoxy could be applied to this footprint and allowed to cure, then once the tape is removed, what you would have left is only an epoxy bed the length and width of your decal.

Once the decal would be applied, another coat of epoxy could then be applied over the decal in essentially the same fashion as the original coat. This would leave you with an epoxy coated decal without all the other epoxy that would be covering the entire circumference of the blank the length of the decal, essentially serving no purpose. Unless there IS a purpose. Is there?

Easier and better looking to coat the entire circumference

I agree with Phil. I also think you’ll avoid any potential, however slight it may be, flaking if you epoxy the whole circumference.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2023 04:28PM by Daryl Ferguson.

Epoxy is formulated to run around the blank while it turns. I would think trying to keep it from doing that would be very difficult to achieve and possibly quite messy. You might be able to cut a window from Frog tape, apply it to the blank, and apply a very light coat with a brush, and pull off the tape at just the right moment. Better you than me! Avoid 3M painters tape, some of it does not play nice with epoxy. I'm not actually sure about Frog tape, but I never heard anything bad about it. Experimentation is key.

In my opinion you answered your own question with the statement *it turned out perfect!".

When it works perfect, I don't change it.


DR

David,
I really cringe when you use the word Acetone and epoxy in the same sentence.

Yes, acetone mixes with and thins epoxy all right.

But, the addition of the acetone changes the properties of the epoxy in a non good way.

If you need to have the unthinned finish flow a bit more than it will with no thinner, just just bit of "GENTLE" heat.

---
For the original post:
If you have a piece of rod blank that has a "Chunky" surface where you are going to apply a decal, why don't you simply sand it off to a dead smooth finish. Then, tack off the rod blank. Apply the decal and apply a coat of epoxy over the decal.
On a smooth rod blank, there is no need to put epoxy on the rod blank before applying a decal.

Best wishes

Just curious on a couple of points:

Is the effort to line-up the exact centers of your decal location and tape off that specific area a time-and-hassle-savings over going full circumference with epoxy? (Time spent in prep to save time in application = break even at BEST to me and my fat thumbs.)

I agree that a thread under-wrap is an additional use of thread (cost of materials and time application). What does an entire spool of thread cost per foot? Per under-wrap?

Also, a total 360-degree application of epoxy is more material than a 180-degree app of epoxy; it is TWICE the amount, right!?! What is the cost savings of using 1/2 the amount of epoxy, 180 vs 360?

My TWO and a Half thoughts:

1) A minimal amount of epoxy is needed to make a consistent mix. Is this minimum amount enough to cover the surface at decal length of 70 mm or so? In my experience, always have extra left over when I mix my
minimums of 1.5 to 2 ml (and these are BELOW the manufacturer's suggested minimums). Just don't complain about tacky finishes when you wanted to spend $0.75 less in finish to save money, okay!? You end up spending
double or triple the $ to mitigate the error, IME, but you never get the TIME back. (Time is money is true in some respects. At my increasing age, I can make more money but not more time....no matter the money I'd pay for
it.)

2) I agree that the thread under wrap is not necessary for getting the decal flat on a ridged (unsanded) blank if you pre-epoxy it, IME. If you like thread as an aesthetic touch, then great! You gave me an idea! Thank you!

2.5) Some folks might go nuts over the fact that the decal area sticks up a tiny bit more than the rest of the finish. Sorta kidding and sorta not on this one. It wouldn't bother me, but it might some folks. And I am not saying they
are wrong, only that when you start doing something to one part of a blank but not the other parts, it can cause some discriminating folks to say hmmmmmmm.....

So, in my thinking, you can save a dollar in thread, but not in epoxy. You will not save much time nor money in the end, IMO and IME.

Like I always tell my fishing buddy, I don't fish to save money. I fish for other reasons. The same is true for my fishing rods. I can get all the cheap combos I want for a fraction of what I choose to spend to custom rigs. I just can't do it and feel like I want to feel. (Don't bomb me with how you save millions of dollars on your groceries by fishing....that's not my point! I don't doubt you live on pennies a day from fishing...)

My take is all.

My speckled trout filets only cost me $39.99 a pound. I could probably get that down a couple of bucks per pound if I went with the cheap combos.

Mark,

I get you, man! (I think I do)

I bought Two Pounds of pre-cooked and deveined shrimp in Kansas City a couple days ago for $12, and Four, 3-4 oz ea.. lobster tails for $6.

Needless to say, even if I lived in Florida or Maine, it would cost me more than $40 a pound to go out and get them myself. But if I valued the experience of doing getting the shrimp and lobster, and the friends and family involved in the whole process...it might be priceless to me.

The price of money is not the final word for any of us, is it? Maybe for some. Not why I build my own rods, though.

Not trying to get political here! Trying to connect.

Ernie, having rethought this? With a nearly dry brush I would very thinly brush finish on the blank in an area larger than the footprint of the decal and feather the edges.it doesn't even have to be neat. (as long as future coats will cover it) If it's thin enough it won't even try to run. All you have to do is make it (thinly) wet and put it on the dryer. It will disappear when recoated.

Les...I read your response with interest, and you made some considerably accurate comments related to the cost of materials vs the quality of the final product. Actually, cost is a non issue. I suppose I thought about it more from a weight of the final product perspective. On many occasions here on the site I have seen comments related to the benefits of eliminating excess weight to a build. One such discussion that often comes up in general related to this is the use of micro guides vs more conventional guides. And I have always thought to myself...REALLY?

If someone blindfolded me and handed me two otherwise identical blanks built with identical parts other than the guides, I think that if I had to identify which was which in order to save my life, I would have an expected survival rate of 50%. BUT... I could be wrong. So my questions here revolve around the fact that adding the thread to cover the length of a decal footprint and doubling the amount of epoxy needed in the process might add more weight to a rod than the amount of weight that would be saved by using smaller, lighter guides. Cosmetically, the final result of the use of the thread underlayment with a little decorative work on either end with the decal(s) centered within is outstanding. If I eliminated the thread underwrap, I would still need to cover the span of a lengthy decal that covers maybe 120 degrees of the blank, while the remainder of the epoxy covers 240 degrees with essentially no purpose.

The NFC decal for the blank in question is 10cm long. The underwrap (with saw blade patterns and metallic trim bands on either end) is 13cm long. So I had to cover a length of 13cm twice with epoxy to get the job done. It 's beautiful for sure..but it did add some weight and of course time to create. And quite honestly, the only reason I did it is because of the problem some on this site say they have experienced with applying decals to ribbed blanks...like NFC x-rays.

Ernie,

I apologize for not reading your question more carefully about weight-saving aspects versus cost saving aspects. I'll take another run at your questions.

You are right about all you said regarding weight savings. There is a definite point where the returns diminish to my ability to feel the difference. That's not to say there might not BE a difference, but it is lost on me.

However, rod weight IS an important factor that has a couple variables attached to it in my view:

Variables:
1) Where the weight is located on the blank:
* In general, the closer the additional weight is to the butt end, the less impact that weight has on rod performance. The further weight moves toward the tip, the more of an impact it makes.
* The closer to the front 1/2 and tip of the rod, the more and More and MORE of an impact weight has. I'll go as far as to say that the closer you go to the tip, the impact of additional weight goes up exponentially per increment.
2) Some make the tradeoff of additional weight for a 'balanced' feel. Most of these folks will put balancing weights in the very butt end of the rod, and no more than needed. Makes sense to put the weight there if you want to add weight at all. (Others change the position of the reel and reel seat to achieve balance and add no additional weight to the butt end. This is the way I would tend to go.)

Personal Views:
1) In general, the less weight the better, wherever it is located. However, you could weigh the amount of thread, epoxy, trim rings, hook keeper, and decal, and it would not be that much. Combined with the fact that it is located toward the butt end minimizes the impact even more. Part of what makes a rod a joy is how it looks, too. Decorative elements aren't a deal breaker because they don't weigh much, and are usually located below the front 3/4ths of the blank length. However, for me, what looks pretty is pretty clean and simple.
2) Micro Running Guides are a must to me for two important factors: A) They minimize weight in total, and especially out at the front half and tip. B) They are very efficient at taming the line and keeping the 'load' close to the blank; that means less downward torque on a conventional casting rod with guides on top. On a spinning rod, the guides are already on bottom (where gravity and any load is wanting the line to go), yet still add benefit from the reduced weight throughout the blank and tip section. The Butt or Reduction Train guides may be larger than micro size, but they are closer to the butt end of the blank, too. Check out Fuji's KR Concept guide systems and don't look back, IMO.

Hope I did not give too much info or repeate what you already know.

Hope I helped you!

Les
3) Non-Micro Guides can be perfect if you need a larger size for larger line, passing leader knots, and the like. Unless it is a RV6 butt guide for a casting rod o

Whatever, good luck.