Hi so I just finished my nfc apfg745 sick build, but I’ve always had the same problem when covering labels where the finish is even and levels out but it’s not perfectly even, any recommendations for a perfectly level finish over your rod decal

Two coats of CP over the top and edges. It stops the fish eye over the decal and keeps it epoxy from penetrating the edges that will lift them. Make sure it is dry before applying epoxy. Apply epoxy in long even strokes down the length and turn at about 12 RPMs. Two to three coats and you should be good.

Lance gave you some good advice - I posted my response before I saw his. Sorry for any duplication!

I love my apfg 745's, too!

Labels are a challenge. They always seem to have a bit of 'fish eye' or resist the epoxy at a spot or two along the edges.

First, make sure you are doing your epoxy work in a room that is 70-degrees or more. Think warm room.

On an unsanded blank like the apfg, I have found it best to put down a coat of thread epoxy first to make a smooth surface for the label. Let this epoxy dry before label application.

a. Burnish the label down as flat as I can, especially edges and corners.
b. (some apply color preserver over the label) and let dry.
c. I apply my first coat of epoxy, not too thick.
d. Let epoxy cure overnight in the rod drier.
e. inspect the first coat for any little bumps or burrs or 'stick-ups'; carefully trim flush with single edge razor blade.
f. I apply another coat of epoxy and set in my rod drier overnight.

This usually does a good job. If not, I may try a third coat after sanding the second coat flat, not totally removed, with a sanding block and 400 grit paper. Clean off dust with warm water and Dawn.

If you are getting little hills and valleys, you may be using too much epoxy.

There are lots of great threads on the forum on epoxy finishing. Have you tried a Search? I have never achieved what I would call 'perfection', but I can get results I'm happy with.

Enjoy that apfg! I'd love to see a picture!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2023 04:21PM by Les Cline.

Absolutely love my apfg 745 my favorite bladed jig rod I’ve ever had! But okay I’m definitely going to have to give all these techniques a try. I understand perfect is probably unachievable but as close as possible I mean. One more thing with sanding, if I sand it will the new coat clear it up again and fill all the little scratches, I’ve never sanded epoxy before

Hello Brandon.

One thing everyone forgets is to check for level when on the dryer, if it is tip up or down you will not get a level coat.

Yes Brandon once you sand you need to brush with a CLEAN BRUSH to get rid of the dust DO NOT use a solvent, and it will come out fine.

Good Day.


Tight Wraps & tighter Lines.

Bob,

New Bern, NC.

Below is a link to a video we made about epoxy over decals that may be of help to you:
[youtu.be]

Here is another
[youtu.be]

We hope they help!!

Regards.
Team Mud Hole Custom Tackle
Web: [www.mudhole.com]
Email: sales@mudhole.com
Toll Free Phone #: 1-866-790-RODS (7637)

Stay Connected with us:
FaceBook: [www.facebook.com]
YouTube: [www.youtube.com]
Instagram: [www.instagram.com]
Tik Tok: Tik Tok: [www.tiktok.com]
Twitter: @mudholetackle

Brandon,
All good replies above. I don’t know what your finishing set-up is; while turning by hand can certainly produce good results, a rod lathe, power wrapper, or at least a finish dryer (actually “curer”) is a real asset.
Many, as Lance, use CP but I do not = your choice. As Les mentioned, the first coat of epoxy applied over decals can be repelled (like fisheyes) which is why some prefer CP. If I notice repelling after giving it 5 minutes, I simply drag a strip of a quality paper towel lightly over the epoxy in the opposite direction of rotation (a definite + for having a power turner of sorts) to actually remove the fresh epoxy and contamination rather than just smearing it around. Then mix a second batch and reapply with a FRESH BRUSH.
I ALWAYS apply a base coat of epoxy prior to installing the decals 24 hours later. Applying decals over a matte or sanded blank will leave a dull spot under the clear portion of the decal. Furthermore, it provides a fresh (yet still a bit “green”), contamination-free surface for the decal to really take hold of. Applying epoxy over a sanded (=>400 grit) is fine = you will not see the sand scratches but should be reserved as a last resort nonetheless.
As for “recommendations for a perfectly level finish over your rod decal”, perfection is subjective and what is perfect for some may have miniscule unevenness to others. I am highly critical and have never achieved what I consider a perfect “ground glass” surface; extremely close but not absolutely 100% perfect, even if 95% of people would probably consider it perfect. The longer the area being applied with epoxy = the more difficult it is to approach a ground-glass lens appearance. A .5in wide guide wrap is no problem; a 3in wide decal inscription is more difficult; a 10in wide butt wrap would be a real challenge.
While not absolutely critical, the amount of epoxy applied is a major factor in approaching that ground-glass lens appearance. As Les mentioned, too much can cause sagging (even if power-turned). But too little can reduce the epoxy’s ability to self-level. And then there is the difference in the epoxy’s viscosity which dictates how much to apply. The perfect amount of any epoxy of any viscosity is only determined by trial-and-error and a little common sense. Apply, observe, acknowledge, and adjust.
Speaking of viscosity, I prefer “lite” versus “high” build epoxy; it flows-out better, releases bubbles easier, and generally has a longer pot life. The only down-side to that is a longer cure time and an additional coat or two may be required, which I readily accept. With any viscosity epoxy, make certain to apply it promptly after mixing and not halfway or more through its pot life. Ambient temperature plays a big role as well; any deviation either side of 70*F will change its viscosity = flow-out and pot life.
I have found that no matter how precisely even I try to be, only applying the epoxy in circles around the blank leaves a tic more epoxy in some areas than others. Similar to Lance's method of longitudinal strokes, I do the same (back and forth) but as the blank is rotating which produces a shallow “X” pattern in the wet epoxy. By brushing in both axial and circumferential directions, the epoxy is applied about as evenly as possible. Minimize the number of strokes to avoid overworking the epoxy and introducing bubbles. This does require brushing past the edges of the desired area which may then require masking. Remove the tape as soon as possible to avoid a ridge. A heat gun gently used to warm the coat of epoxy will thin it to help flow-out and release bubbles; “gently” is the important word = don’t overcook it! There are those who claim to just apply the epoxy quickly and let it flow-out as designed, but those must be the ones who are not as critical as me.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Mark! My man thank you so much! So much information there, I should have included in fairly new to rod building so everything is a learning experience right now, just like you I’m highly critical and I probably shouldn’t be with where I am in regards to my experience at the moment. Looks like we gotta order another blank and try! Thanks everyone!

Robert A. Guist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hello Brandon.
>
> One thing everyone forgets is to check for level
> when on the dryer, if it is tip up or down you
> will not get a level coat.
>
> Yes Brandon once you sand you need to brush with a
> CLEAN BRUSH to get rid of the dust DO NOT use a
> solvent, and it will come out fine.
>
> Good Day.
>
>
> Tight Wraps & tighter Lines.

I'm new to rod building myself. I bought the CRB Rod Building Kit from Mudhole. Overall, I'm quite pleased with it. But, yes, I had to shim the dryer stand. For some reason, unbeknownst to me, it is not at a level height with the same CRB rod stands that came in the kit. Fortunately, I caught it while wrapping and shimmed under the dryer stand with sheets of magazine paper until level.

As far as the dust, I would HIGHLY recommend keeping a can of compressed air in your rod building supply cabinet. It comes in handy! With the straw inserted, you can really pinpoint the flow and direct the dust completely out of the way of the blank. Just don't be stupid like me and mix your thread finish and forget to move it out of the way before you give your wraps a final blow before applying finish. I will spare everyone the details of that little disaster and the ensuing explanation to my wife about how epoxy finish ended up on her Persian rug. Suffice to say, my wallet is considerably lighter after the "professional" cleaning she insisted upon. :(

With respect to dust.

IN a word, blue painters low tack masking tape works extremely well to tack off any residual dust without leaving contamination behind.

Definitely a fan of these blanks too.
As mentioned, lay down a thin layer of epoxy or a base layer of thread( sealed in epoxy) and place the label over that. Burnish the edges with a thread tool or small roller. Start in the middle and work your way out. Let the epoxy sit for 10 minutes before applying, as the chemical reaction causes heat that can lift the edges of your label. Don’t worry about how the first coat of epoxy looks. Viscosity can cause some separation, but nothing to worry about. The next coat, third if needed, will cover it.

Like others have mentioned… room temp and a level blank will save the day.

If you want absolute perfection… three coats. The put some 320 grit sandpaper on a small wood block and sand the length of the blank. Tip to butt, around the blank. This is a luthier technique for leveling frets on a guitar. You can find concave sanding blocks on rockler.com that help with this also. A light coat afterwards and you’re set.