I am having a problem with getting the finish on my wraps to turn out smooth . This has gotten gradually better with time but is still not right . The problem is with subtle undulations in the light reflex on the finished guide wraps ( and also over the first decal I tried last week ) . I've seen photos here with wrap finishes that have perfectly straight light reflexes over the guide wraps and I'd like to try get this in my work . The problem is more noticeable on the reduction train guides but occasionally is present in the KB / KT runners . I'll try to describe my tools and procedures . I would appreciate any help yall could give me .

1) I always wash hands before working with thread and generally cut off several inches from the spool before starting to have "fresh" thread
2) I work primarily with Fuji thread - do not use nocp
3) I use CRB hand wrapper . Try to set thread tension correctly and keep it consistent for all wraps.
4) I take my time with each wrap , Am a bit OCD with packing as I go.
5) I have used U-40 LS Supreme and Flex Coat Lite Formula . I think both are excellent but the problem is present with both of these epoxies . Problem is not materials - just the user .
6) I apply the epoxy with trimmed down Flex Coat disposable brushes .
7) I apply two lite coats of epoxy while spinning in an 18 rpm CRB rod drier always waiting 12-16 hours between coats . These are very lite - the first just enough to be sure there are no dry spots. The second trying to be sure of a thin even coat .
8) Let the rod spin in the above drier for 3 - 31/2 hours

Thanks.
Ron

This RodMaker Magazine video is worth a look - [www.youtube.com].

Mud Hole Custom Tackle just did a 2 hour show on finish you may find helpful, linlk below
[www.youtube.com]

Regards.
Team Mud Hole Custom Tackle
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This should help you: [www.youtube.com]

...........

One of the most common errors in doing a long application like a decal is using too much. Try using less epoxy and distribute it along the axis of the blank so it's evenly distributed. It sounds like you are not using too much, so maybe just stopping the rotation while appying to the decal area and distributing it will help.

Ross Pearson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This RodMaker Magazine video is worth a look -
> [www.youtube.com]
> nnel=RodMakerMagazine.

Thank you for the video link . I assume that was Mr. Kirkman . I noticed three things he did differently - used high build epoxy , used artist brushes , and rotated by hand both during and after application . I'll try these changes separately on some practice guides from an old rod . He also mentions the use of a rod dryer in the video but implied he doesn't use one . I believe most rod dryers turn at around 6 rpm whereas my CRB unit spins at around 18 rpm . I didn't think the faster rpm would cause a problem but may have been wrong there . Thanks again for your help .
Ron

Ronald Atchley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ross Pearson Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > This RodMaker Magazine video is worth a look -
> >
> [www.youtube.com]
>
> > nnel=RodMakerMagazine.
>
> Thank you for the video link . I assume that was
> Mr. Kirkman . I noticed three things he did
> differently - used high build epoxy , used artist
> brushes , and rotated by hand both during and
> after application . I'll try these changes
> separately on some practice guides from an old rod
> . He also mentions the use of a rod dryer in the
> video but implied he doesn't use one . I believe
> most rod dryers turn at around 6 rpm whereas my
> CRB unit spins at around 18 rpm . I didn't think
> the faster rpm would cause a problem but may have
> been wrong there . Thanks again for your help .
> Ron

I doubt your rod dryer had anything to do with your issue. I have the same dryer as you and I didn't have any issues.

Here is a much shorter video we made that literally changed my life when it comes to finish application. Now I get it like glass.
[www.youtube.com]

and here is another, longer 10 minute version
[www.youtube.com]

Flex Coat Company
Professional Rod Building Supplies
www.flexcoat.com

Ronald

Think on this. Imagine you are panting a vertical wall with a flat brush. If you overload the brush and apply excess paint the paint will drip or sag. Now imagine the wall with paint sags is rolled into a cylinder. What you would then see would be "subtle undulations" that are worse on larger diameter butt sections and less so on the smaller diameter section wraps but nonetheless still occurs and is sometimes referred to as "footballs".

Tom K and John C have shared techniques to avoid the problem. There are others that work as well. The trick is to find through repetitive tests the technique that works consistently for you and your equipment.

Mud Hole Custom Tackle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mud Hole Custom Tackle just did a 2 hour show on
> finish you may find helpful, linlk below
> [www.youtube.com]
> hare

Thank you . I appreciate the link .
Ron

Tom Kirkman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This should help you:
> [www.youtube.com]
>
> ...........
Thank you Mr. Kirkman . Excellent video . I think I listed the different things I need to try in my reply to Ross Pearson . Thanks again .
Ron

Michael Danek Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One of the most common errors in doing a long
> application like a decal is using too much. Try
> using less epoxy and distribute it along the axis
> of the blank so it's evenly distributed. It
> sounds like you are not using too much, so maybe
> just stopping the rotation while appying to the
> decal area and distributing it will help.

I appreciate the help Mr. Danek . I honestly don't think I'm using too much epoxy on either coat - at least I actively try not to . It's looking like experience is the missing ingredient here . I hear / read in a lot of sources that it's safest to use two thin coats but then in some videos they use so much it literally drips off . Therefore the conclusion that experience will help solve the problem . The rotation may be a problem - the only time I have stopped the rotation is when I fill the tunnel with a very fine tip artist brush .
Thank you .
Ron

Daryl Ferguson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I doubt your rod dryer had anything to do with
> your issue. I have the same dryer as you and I
> didn't have any issues.

Thank you . I had been told that the 18 rpm dryer should work well . As I mentioned in another reply , experience is probably the limiting factor here .
Ron

Take a look at this G Loomis factory tour.
In particular take a look at time stamp of 5:34

As you can see, she just flows on a lot of epoxy and lets it self spread.

But also look at the time a bit later where she takes a rod to be coated and the first thing that she does it to flame the thread wraps, just to burn off any thread fuzzies that might have resulted from the thread wrapping of the guides.

Also, just before she puts the guide into the rod dryer, sho goes over the finish very quickly with the heat to slightly thing the mixture and have it flow nicely and end up being perfect.

Note that she spends about 10-15 seconds per guide to apply finish. Then, she simply self level and she brushes off the excess.

It only takes two or thre minutes to apply finish to all of the guides and butt wrap on a rod.

Best wishes.

Donald La Mar Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
If you overload the brush
> and apply excess paint the paint will drip or sag.

>

> The trick is to find through repetitive tests the
> technique that works consistently for you and your
> equipment.


Thank you . Honestly , I didn't think I was applying excess epoxy - literally just enough so there were no dry spots on the first coat and just enough on the second coat that I could tell the surface was "wet" . I totally agree with you that lack of repetition / experience is my main problem . Thanks again .
Ron

John Cates Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here is a much shorter video we made that
> literally changed my life when it comes to finish
> application. Now I get it like glass.
> [www.youtube.com]
>
> and here is another, longer 10 minute version
> [www.youtube.com]

Really appreciate the video links . The tips on brush rotation and heat ( I was wrong in thinking it was only needed for air bubbles ) should help make a difference . From watching both videos , I can tell for sure that I am not applying too much finish - too little if anything . Thank you .
Ron

roger wilson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Take a look at this G Loomis factory tour.
> In particular take a look at time stamp of 5:34
>
> As you can see, she just flows on a lot of epoxy
> and lets it self spread.
>
> But also look at the time a bit later where she
> takes a rod to be coated and the first thing that
> she does it to flame the thread wraps, just to
> burn off any thread fuzzies that might have
> resulted from the thread wrapping of the guides.
>
> Also, just before she puts the guide into the rod
> dryer, sho goes over the finish very quickly with
> the heat to slightly thing the mixture and have it
> flow nicely and end up being perfect.
>
> Note that she spends about 10-15 seconds per guide
> to apply finish. Then, she simply self level and
> she brushes off the excess.
>
> It only takes two or thre minutes to apply finish
> to all of the guides and butt wrap on a rod.
>
> Best wishes.

Thank you . To find the video , I'll Google G Loomis Factory Tour . A recurring suggestion in many of the replies I've received is to heat the finish after applying . Again , I was wrong in thinking heat was only for air bubbles . Thanks again .
Ron

Bill Falconer has several videos of how he does it. One is even on Mudholes channel.
When I started finishing similar to him and using Gen 4 is when I made great strides in quality.

Ronald, it is good to see that you think you may be using too little finish instead of too much. If you are like me when did my first few builds, I was trying to be too precise with the amount of finish I was applying. I was shooting for perfectly smooth right out of the gate, and it was frustrating. It wasn't until I watched two of the videos linked in this thread, and saw how much finish they were applying, that I started to get better, and now, results that I am more than happy with.

What Donald mentioned earlier about the trick being that you find a procedure that works best for you, is spot on. Certainly the advice you have been given, both in written words and videos, is all good advice. But you may find certain elements of the procedures don't work for you. For instance, anytime I have introduced heat into my finishing process, it has caused me nothing but problems, so I don't use it. If the entire procedure a video or a member lays out for you, works for you. Great. But don't be afraid to change things up by combining bits and pieces of multiple procedures if need be. It's all about coming up with what works for you.

Personally, I really glop finish on, and initially turn the rod by hand so I can let the finish sag to where I can wick off the sags with a brush. I then rotate the rod 180 degrees and let it sag again. Once again wicking off the excess. I do this until I don't see any individual sags. Which for me, ends up being 4, 180 degree turns of the rod before I put the rod in my rod dryer.

Anyhow ..... find what works for you. If you can modify a procedure in a way you haven't seen mentioned and it works best for you. then it's the right way to do it.

I essentially use a similar technique to David.

I.e. I measure equal parts of finish, mix for 120 seconds and then apply finish on the rod blank using my power wrapper at speeds of 60-75 rpm.

I get plenty of finish on the entire amount of thread wraps to insure good coverage. I do not slow down to try to get everything level and smooth. Rather, in the first pass that takes 2-3 minutes, I am just concerned about getting enough finish on each wrap to - at the end - have enough total finish covering the wrap.

When doing finish application, I use a lot of light, magnification and a little bit of heat to thin the mix if necessary, using my heat gun.

On the 2nd pass, I slow down a bit, to insure that every spot has been filled properly. If not, I either add a touch of finish or wich off a touch of finish on the rotating blank that is now rotating about 20 rpm.

On the 3rd pass, I slow down further, even stopping if necessary to do the finish inspection and any very slight clean up that might be required.

If all checks out, I either slow the wrapper down to a typical 10 rpm for overnight drying or transfer it to a different dryer that turns at 10 rpm when in production mode along with other rods all on their overnight run.

The typical finish application, check, clean up and final inspection is on the order of 5-7 minutes.

If done properly as I normally do, this will be the only finish that I apply. Then, after an overnight drying cycle, the rod is ready to ship.

I have only ever used one product and that is standard Flex Coat high build finish and I have always been happy with the results, as have been my clients.

--------------------------
This method may not be for everyone, but for me - it is simple, reliable, goes very quickly, and gives the desired results.

As Mr. Kirkman has said many many times in the past. No reason to brush finish. Just bring the loaded brush close to a rotating rod and the rotating rod will pull the finish off the brush and the finish will self level with out spending extra times doing the job.