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Pages: 12Next
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ZigZag guides
Posted by: Peter Yawn (---.mpls.qwest.net)
Date: January 16, 2023 09:19PM

Apparently a high end Japanese rod manufacturer thinks off center guides increase sensitivity. See the second rod in the link.

[www.evergreen-fishing.com]

Not buying what they are selling, but gotta give them credit for trying.

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Re: ZigZag guides
Posted by: Ronald Atchley (96.125.236.---)
Date: January 16, 2023 10:07PM

Hey now . That looks like my last build . Didn't know I was onto something new :) I just thought I needed more practice :)
Ron

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Re: ZigZag guides
Posted by: Daniel Grundvig (---)
Date: January 17, 2023 10:37AM

Somehow names like "Beastinger Extreme" don't quite match a line rating of 3-8lb. I'm going to have to be more creative in naming my favorite rods- names like "Ole Bessy" now seem inadequate. I think I'm going to use one of their names, print out a label and attach it to one of my ice rods..."The War Gazelle" Has a nice ring to it.

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Re: ZigZag guides
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: January 17, 2023 11:36AM

If you mis-align the guides by just enough, you create a perfectly straight line path. Remember, the line doesn't use entire area within the guide ring. In effect they are attempting to create a perfectly straight line path by putting the line up against the inside of the zig guides and the up against the other inside on the zag guides. I think it's an odd way to achieve what could more easily be achieved simply by using smaller guide rings. And how this rod behaves under load and on the retrieve is likely be less than ideal.

............

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Re: ZigZag guides
Posted by: Matt Ruggie (---)
Date: January 17, 2023 11:56AM

creating a perfectly straight line path? Really?

they offset so much to create a zig zag. purposely creating the exact opposite of a perfectly straight line path so that there are more points of constant contact and in their opinion, more sensitivity.

JDM rods always seem gimmicky to me, from the backwards wrapped stripper guide on the megabass (?) . to the slant bridge grips to the names and descriptions.

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Re: ZigZag guides
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: January 17, 2023 01:08PM

You can't know unless you sight down the rod and see if there is a straight line from inside edge to inside edge of the guides. Hard to tell from the photo but that's what they're trying to accomplish. And they're not the first to try it.

............

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Re: ZigZag guides
Posted by: Matt Ruggie (---)
Date: January 17, 2023 01:24PM

Tom,
look at the pics on the second page.

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Re: ZigZag guides
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: January 17, 2023 03:42PM

I did. The inside edges of the guides appear to be lined up. But it's hard to tell from that angle. You'd have to sight straight down the length of the rod blank.

...........

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Re: ZigZag guides
Posted by: Matt Ruggie (---)
Date: January 17, 2023 05:18PM


i 100% understand the concept you are describing. i just dont see this as being that concept. the guides appear to be offset much more than that. if the line zig zags back and forth from the top view, it will zig zag back and forth while sighting down that blank.

edit to add. the tip top and 1st running guide from the top appear to be offset in the manner you describe.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2023 05:33PM by Matt Ruggie.

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Re: ZigZag guides
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: January 17, 2023 05:51PM

Just hard to tell from a side view. Need to sight along the rod's length.

...........

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Re: ZigZag guides
Posted by: Dean Veltman (---)
Date: January 18, 2023 06:28AM

If the guides were arranged so line still ran straight, I think the effect on line management would be no different than smaller guides, but with added weight in the zig zag configuration. If the line is like the picture above, there would be some additional tension on the guides when line is taunt which might boost sensitivity a bit if all else is equal on the build. Maybe.

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Re: ZigZag guides
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: January 18, 2023 07:35AM

Dean,

That's what I said earlier, although you're not going to see any increase in sensitivity by putting more tension on the guides with the line. What you feel with a rod is something pulling or resisting you, i.e. a fish, lip on a lure, spinnerbait blade, etc, not some sort of vibration. People often mistake/consider the cadence of something in resistance as a vibration.

As far as the line path in the photo by the manufacturer, you can't tell until you can get a better view down the length of the rod.

............

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Re: ZigZag guides
Posted by: John DeMartini (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: January 18, 2023 11:12AM

To me it's just doesn't seem right. I see it as marketing a gimmick, If it had merit the retail shelves would be loaded with them, and rod crafters' would saturate the forums, arguing as to what the optimum off-set should be.

I go with what Peter said "Not buying what they are selling, but gotta give them credit for trying."

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Re: ZigZag guides
Posted by: Dennis Danku (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: January 18, 2023 12:00PM

You want sensitivity, bring back the old interline rods, where the line runs thru the blank.

Dennis J. Danku
(Sayreville,NJ)

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Re: ZigZag guides
Posted by: Pawel Tymendorf (---.aa.ipv6.supernova.orange.pl)
Date: January 18, 2023 05:13PM

Tom Kirkman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> What you feel with a rod is something pulling or
> resisting you, i.e. a fish, lip on a lure,
> spinnerbait blade, etc, not some sort of
> vibration. People often mistake/consider the
> cadence of something in resistance as a
> vibration.
> ............

so what do you feel when jig free falls and touch the bottom ?

No pulling, no resisting, no vibration - yet you feel it.

Best regards,
Pavel

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Re: ZigZag guides
Posted by: Lynn Behler (---.44.66.72.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
Date: January 18, 2023 06:35PM

Those guides look awfully close together!?

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Re: ZigZag guides
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: January 18, 2023 08:07PM

If the line isn't taut, you won't feel it. If the line is taut, you will feel the change in resistance.

.............

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Re: ZigZag guides
Posted by: Pawel Tymendorf (---.aa.ipv6.supernova.orange.pl)
Date: January 19, 2023 01:56AM

What kind of resistance Tom ? Water resisting the line during fall ?

Best regards,
Pavel

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Re: ZigZag guides
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: January 19, 2023 09:37AM

Yes, anything that keeps the line taut. Keep in mind that the lines doesn't have to be straight to be taut in a water medium.

.........

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Re: ZigZag guides
Posted by: Robert A. Guist (---.res6.spectrum.com)
Date: January 19, 2023 04:51PM

Hello Pawel.

Pawel asked:
"so what do you feel when jig free falls and touch the bottom?
No pulling, no resisting, no vibration - yet you feel it.
What kind of resistance Tom? Water resisting the line during fall?"

When an object is moving it is making some type of vibration, and when it stops moving you will feel the vibrations stop especially if the line it is attached to is tout in the slightest.

Just my 2 cents.

Tight Wraps & Tighter Lines.

Bob,

New Bern, NC.

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