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Rod broke
Posted by: David Luttig (---)
Date: January 09, 2023 06:12PM

I had an ultra light rod that I made break at the third guide from the tip. It was being used in below freezing weather, but that shouldn’t hurt anything Guy said he set the hook and it snapped. It was right at the end of the guide foot. I’m sure I didn’t wrap this to tight, but is it possible if you wrap the guide to tight that it could compromise the blank? I inspect each guide and make sure there are no burrs or sharp edges, so I no there was nothing wrong with the guide.

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Re: Rod broke
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: January 09, 2023 06:24PM

A guide wrapped too tight could cause the blank to break. However, most rods get broken for other reasons - high sticking, impact, etc. High sticking usually results in a break that occurs in the upper 1/3rd of the rod.

What you're going to have to do is return the blank to the manufacturer and let them make the call. From there you can either give the customer the benefit of the doubt or otherwise. I have always felt these situations are among the most difficult things a custom rod builder has to deal with.

..............

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Re: Rod broke
Posted by: David Luttig (---)
Date: January 09, 2023 06:25PM

I should also mention I always have to move my guides ever so slightly to get them “perfectly lined up”. I never have a problem doing this so I’m guessing I’m not wrapping to tight. It just stumps me how this could break at the bottom of the guide foot area, making me believe it’s something I might have done.

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Re: Rod broke
Posted by: Lynn Behler (---.44.66.72.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
Date: January 09, 2023 06:29PM

I'd be a bit suspicious of that "hookset". Set it on what? Did he land the fish? If it was the blank, it should have broken when you bent it around during the build. Although I must say, I don't test my blanks to hookset shocks.

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Re: Rod broke
Posted by: David Luttig (---)
Date: January 09, 2023 06:33PM

I am very suspicious of the break. His question to me was, “cold temps shouldn’t cause a rod to break, should it”? I said no, but did ask if the rod had water frozen to it or anything weird…it didn’t. ????

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Re: Rod broke
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: January 09, 2023 06:37PM

Questions - how old was the rod? How long had the guy been fishing it? Had he caught good fish on it previously? I can give you a better answer with this info.

..........

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Re: Rod broke
Posted by: Norman Miller (Moderator)
Date: January 09, 2023 06:38PM

My guess would be high sticking. I’ve seen a bunch of rods break at the point you described. You could try to repair it, but some manufacturers will honor a warranty claim no matter how it broke. So check and see what happens.
Norm

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Re: Rod broke
Posted by: David Luttig (---)
Date: January 09, 2023 06:40PM

I built the rod over the winter on 2022 and I gave the rod to him this past spring, 2022. I had seen pics of his panfish catch so I know it worked this summer.

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Re: Rod broke
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: January 09, 2023 06:43PM

OK, rods don't suddenly become defective. If there is something wrong with the blank or the build, they'll failed pretty soon out of the gate. If he's been fishing this rod over the past year with no issues prior to the break my gut feeling is that he high sticked it. The issue for you now is how you plan to handle it. Do a search in the archives here as to how most handle "warranty" type situations.

And read over this- [www.rodbuilding.org]

Then send me your mailing address and I will send you something that may help you determine why the rod broke.

.............

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Re: Rod broke
Posted by: Lynn Behler (---.44.66.72.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
Date: January 09, 2023 06:47PM

At this point I'd say It 's nothing to do with the build and also not the cold. My first guess was high sticking.

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Re: Rod broke
Posted by: John DeMartini (---.inf6.spectrum.com)
Date: January 09, 2023 06:52PM

It is possible the blank got scratched by the guide foot and developed a stress point.

The guide may have had a burr or the guide was tied tighter at the tip and during any alignment adjustments the guide tip rubbed and scratched the blank causing a weak point.

Just a "what if" thing to think about..

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Re: Rod broke
Posted by: David Luttig (---)
Date: January 09, 2023 07:08PM

John DeMartini Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is possible the blank got scratched by the
> guide foot and developed a stress point.
>
> The guide may have had a burr or the guide was
> tied tighter at the tip and during any alignment
> adjustments the guide tip rubbed and scratched the
> blank causing a weak point.
>
> Just a "what if" thing to think about..

That is possible that it was wrapped to tight I suppose, but I know 100% it didn’t have a burr on it. I inspect all the guide feet and even run it over my thumb nail to make sure nothing catches on it

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Re: Rod broke
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---)
Date: January 09, 2023 08:52PM

David,
You make it appear that you had all bases covered while building the rod with proper thread tension and guide prep / inspection. My gut feeling mirrors that of many others = the rod was high-sticked. If not, then possibly the rod was inadvertently, unknowingly nicked as John mentioned and caused a stress-riser = more severe consequences with CF than FG.
All anglers are fishermen but not all fishermen are anglers!!! Anglers know the proper angle to subject a rod to, not necessarily so with many fishermen. The fisherman who breaks a rod will instantly blame the rod and plead innocent until proven guilty (difficult to prove considering egos); the angler who breaks a rod will sheepishly ask you to build another for him.
As for your 2 initial questions / concerns about ambient temperature and “proper” thread tension:
While sub freezing temps will certainly make the wraps less pliable / stiffer compared to more flexible / softer at higher temps, for our application those worries are for naught.
While excessive thread tension COULD compromise a blank, by nature a tubular structure is extremely resilient to compression IF the force is applied EVENLY around the circumference. But then, back to stress-risers, a tightly bound (wrapped) area right next to an unsupported area could conceivably cause an issue, but I believe it is unlikely in our application. Nonetheless, many do not realize just how much force they are subjecting a blank to with typical thread wraps. Consider that if just 1lb of thread tension (granted, quite a bit) is applied while wrapping, a 50 thread long wrap (<.5in size A) will be exerting 50lb of force on the blank.
Although thread tension is a relative, subjective term, it is safe to say that I wrap with more tension than most others. That being said, I have not experienced a single failure with any of my UL builds.
In conclusion, >95% certain the rod was high-sticked. Now all you have to do is convince / enlighten the owner.
Mark T.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

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Re: Rod broke
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: January 09, 2023 09:03PM

You didnt wrap it too tightly. You did nothing wrong. Fish don't break rods. Firshermen do.

This situation is why I don't sell rods. I don't want to have to deal with it. Good luck.

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Re: Rod broke
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: January 10, 2023 01:10AM

Ditto on Michael's comment.

A break at the 3rd guide down from the tip, is a typical spot for a rod to break when the overall blank has been over stressed.

After all, anything that breaks - typically at its weakest spot. In the case of fishing rods, this location about 1/3d of the way down from the tip tends to be that location.

It is also that spot that frequently gets caught in doors as a rod is going in and out of a building, or in and out of a vehicle.

-----------
You are concerned about the rod and its breakage. Great, you have expressed your concern.

Is there any issue with the customer not wanting to build you a new rod and paying for that new rod?

If you did not give the client a forever warranty - then this is the typical procedure. i.e. build a new rod for a client with a broken rod at a possible slight discount.

The sun is going to come up tomorrow, and your rod building will continue as well.

Enjoy the new day and the opportunity to excel doing the things that you like to do on this new day that comes tomorrow.

Take care

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Re: Rod broke
Posted by: David Luttig (---)
Date: January 10, 2023 06:41AM

No issue with the customer. He is a decent guy. I plan to offer to make him a replacement.

Thanks,
Dave

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Re: Rod broke
Posted by: John DeMartini (---.inf6.spectrum.com)
Date: January 10, 2023 08:43AM

Dave;

That is the prudent thing to do, especially if you have no troubled history with your customer.

Have fun

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Re: Rod broke
Posted by: David Luttig (---)
Date: January 10, 2023 02:26PM

Update: after some questions and prodding, the customer said he could have….very likely did….high sticked the rod. He understand there will not be a warranty claim made. All is good and thank you to everyone that commented to help me figure why the rod snapped.

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Re: Rod broke
Posted by: Phil Erickson (---)
Date: January 10, 2023 05:45PM

The fact that it was successfully fished for a prior period of time, pretty well rules out a defect! Whether it was high sticking or a violent hook set, only the user knows.

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Re: Rod broke
Posted by: Steve Cox (---.client.mchsi.com)
Date: January 19, 2023 02:59PM

At this point in the history of the rod, I would definitely say it was NOT rod build related! Some nick or bang occurred in that spot to cause the break. I have fixed 100's of broken rods.

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