I have been doing business with NFC since they started and have yet to have a quality issue. Growing organizations often encounter problems that take time to cure, none of these should be subjected to the cheap shots like Mar S. took. It was personal and way off base!

In my wildest dreams I never would have thought that the notion of "cancel culture" could possibly have crept onto this rod board. I love building rods, but I am simply an enthusiast who does so only for myself. I just find it fun and rewarding.

For a non professional rod builder, I have purchased a number of NFC blanks over the past couple of years, most yet to be built, and one on the way as I write this. So I CERTAINLY have nothing against NFC or Gary Loomis. I don't think I have ever bought a spinning rod blank from anyone else. But someone had something to say that may or may not have any merit, and the discussion commenced from there. Somebody got offended, but nobody got crazy. There was information laid out from both sides, opinions were expressed, and in the end all readers should have been left to come to their own conclusions. If someone needs and deserves to be defended in one's opinion, then "getter done!" Cancelling someone's voice in my opinion doesn't defend anybody, and doesn't take much thought. And although it may be nothing of the sort, doing so could be interpreted by some as an attempt to sweep the whole thing under the carpet. And I think that is the last thing you ought to do.

I also have one more personal observation. I have seen many less than flattering comments from members of this board about various companies or products they produce over the years. I never saw any of those companies strike back to defend themselves against the comments, but I question whether or not the people rendering those comments might have been cancelled had they done so. For me, if there are differing opinions being expressed and the discourse is civil, then game on! I'm a big boy now. I can make up my own mind.

In my wildest dreams I never would have thought that the notion of "cancel culture" could possibly have crept onto this rod board. I love building rods, but I am simply an enthusiast who does so only for myself. I just find it fun and rewarding.

For a non professional rod builder, I have purchased a number of NFC blanks over the past couple of years, most yet to be built, and one on the way as I write this. So I CERTAINLY have nothing against NFC or Gary Loomis. I don't think I have ever bought a spinning rod blank from anyone else. But someone had something to say that may or may not have any merit, and the discussion commenced from there. Somebody got offended, but nobody got crazy. There was information laid out from both sides, opinions were expressed, and in the end all readers should have been left to come to their own conclusions. If someone needs and deserves to be defended in one's opinion, then "getter done!" Cancelling someone's voice in my opinion doesn't defend anybody, and doesn't take much thought. And although it may be nothing of the sort, doing so could be interpreted by some as an attempt to sweep the whole thing under the carpet. And I think that is the last thing you ought to do.

I also have one more personal observation. I have seen many less than flattering comments from members of this board about various companies or products they produce over the years. I never saw any of those companies strike back to defend themselves against the comments, but I question whether or not the people rendering those comments might have been cancelled had they done so. For me, if there are differing opinions being expressed and the discourse is civil, then game on! I'm a big boy now. I can make up my own mind.

In my wildest dreams I never would have thought that the notion of "cancel culture" could possibly have crept onto this rod board. I love building rods, but I am simply an enthusiast who does so only for myself. I just find it fun and rewarding.

For a non professional rod builder, I have purchased a number of NFC blanks over the past couple of years, most yet to be built, and one on the way as I write this! So I CERTAINLY have nothing against NFC or Gary Loomis. I don't think I have ever bought a spinning rod blank from anyone else. But someone had something to say that may or may not have any merit, and the discussion commenced from there. Somebody got offended, but nobody got crazy. There was information laid out from both sides, opinions were expressed, and in the end all readers should have been left to come to their own conclusions. If someone needs and deserves to be defended in one's opinion, then "gett'er done!" Cancelling someone's voice in my opinion doesn't defend anybody, and doesn't take much thought. And although it may be nothing of the sort, doing so could be interpreted by some as an attempt to sweep the whole thing under the carpet. And I think that is the last thing you ought to do.

I also have one more personal observation. I have seen many less than flattering comments from members of this board about various companies or products they produce over the years. I never saw any of those companies strike back to defend themselves against the comments, but I question whether or not the people rendering those comments might have been cancelled had they done so. For me, if there are differing opinions being expressed and the discourse is civil, then game on! I'm a big boy now. I can make up my own mind.

Here's a case in point from another thread currently on the board:

"Thanks guys, looks like I Got Bit. Lol. Supplier substituted ordinary hot glue for my Flex Coat product! (think snake oil) Right now he's lucky I'm so far away. John Cates has rectified the situation, but it shouldn't be on him! Thanks very much John."

I'm betting that what happened here was just innocent human error, and not "snake oil". Nobody has come forth with an explanation or retaliation, but I could see this getting heated. If Get Bit ends up insulted, or there is an explanation for the error, let's hear it. Let it play out if necessary, and don't cancel anyone.

Ernie, I'll share my thoughts on what you laid out above. And of course this is just my opinion based on the limited knowledge of what I have read here on this forum.

In both instances, in encounter this thread is referring to, and the post you referenced, both parties IMO, were trying to make it sound like someone was trying to get over on them. As you said, the Get Bit incident, if you want to call it that, was most likely human error. But who committed the error? If the person you referenced was ordering rod tip glue or guide foot glue, aren't they both just basically hot glue? Could the person making the complaint be the one in error and totally out of line?

And speaking of out of line ...... Considering we're talking about a stick of hot glue, isn't posting "Right now he's lucky I'm so far away" more than a bit out of line? Not only is it out of line, it's ridiculous. You're threatening someone because you got something wrong in an order?

Which brings us to the main reason for this thread, the post made to open the other NFC thread. What he said was more than out of line. The one referencing Shimano's teet was a personal attack with an accompanying accusation. Then you have the utterly ridiculous the blank looks like a broken finger off a melting snow man comment. I mean what the heck is that? The last time I saw someone with a reaction like that, I was watching Gone With The Wind.

We as a society can't keep letting people do and say as they please without consequences. IMO it's been going on long enough and we're starting to see the results of it. What happened to civility and reasonableness? I am afraid that they are much like common sense seems to be today..... pretty much a thing of the past.

Oh and as for myself concerning your case in point. If I were someone high up at Get Bit and saw that post? I would have done the same thing NFC did. He would no longer be a welcome customer at Get Bit.

"And speaking of out of line ...... Considering we're talking about a stick of hot glue, isn't posting "Right now he's lucky I'm so far away" more than a bit out of line? Not only is it out of line, it's ridiculous. You're threatening someone because you got something wrong in an order?"

Absolutely correct. Now...should we all call for the author of that statement to be banned from the board? Personally, I think not. In fact, if that person has the opportunity to read what you just wrote, I hope he or she will get the idea that it was a poor choice of words. Perhaps we should all give that person @#$%&, make a collective point, and move on. Anybody care to defend Get Bit? Do it. No need to cancel anybody.

I do not see it as cancel culture.

Civil commentary, articulate criticism or level headed debate is one thing, vituperative language intended to be hurtful or slanderous is another.

Ernie,

I merged the two topics together so that they can remain in one thread.

1) There are plenty of topics on this forum criticizing NFC, they are all available, searchable, with both sides of the story. The difference is that none of them go into a disrespectful personal attack against the founder/owner of a company. Criticize the products all you want, criticize the company all you want, as soon as it turns personal - this is not the forum.

2) I am very careful about any censorship as again, we are both the company in question and the owner of the forum. Tom Kirkman reached out right after the post was published, and said that he would have deleted it, and it does not have a place on the forum, (as he has deleted posts like this in the past) but he did not want to overstep as he did not know how we would want to handle it. This is why the topic is still up.

Aleks

Ernie,

I also neglected to mention the following:

Marc has not been "banned" - he can still read the forum, he is suspended from further posting pending an apology to Gary.

I did delete his last post where he very graciously stated "just kill the thread Elon" to me (I did find that funny) but that just underlined the fact that this person wanted to keep it "personal"

Aleks

From the top of the RodBuilding.org page. It’s been there for a while. Read the last sentence of the rules.

“Custom Rod Builders - This message board is provided for your use by the sponsors listed on the left side of the page. Feel free to post any question, answers or topics related in any way to custom building. When purchasing products please remember those who sponsor this board.

Manufacturers and Vendors - Only board sponsors are permitted and encouraged to promote and advertise products on the board. You may become a sponsor for a nominal fee. It is the sponsor fees that pay for this message board.

Rules - Rod building is a decent and rewarding craft. Those who participate in it are assumed to be civilized individuals who are kind and considerate in their dealings with others. Please respond to others in the same fashion in which you would like to be responded to. Registration IS NOW required in order to post. You must include your actual First and Last name and a correct email address when registering or posting. Posts which are inflammatory, insulting, or that fail to include a proper name and email address will be removed and the persons responsible will be barred from further participation. “

Norm

Ernie,

This has nothing to do with "cancel culture." In the 21+ years this forum has been online, less than 20 people have been banned. And that's out of well over 15,600 registered users. Nobody has ever been banned for criticizing a product or service. Nobody has ever been banned for criticizing me. But those very few that were banned went well beyond any sort of civilized disagreement and dove into the realm of personal attacks. Even then it took several repeats for an actual ban to take place. It's been a very rare occurrence that anyone has been banned.

The rules, both at the top of this forum and in the actual rule section, stipulate what is allowed and what isn't. Anyone that wishes to participate here is expected to abide by the rules. This forum has lasted as long as it has for a few reasons, one of which is that users are expected to be civil in all their posts. The rod building forums where that type rule either wasn't in place or wasn't enforced, haven't done well over the long haul. They often turned out not to be very nice places and therefore companies didn't want to sponsor them and many builders were afraid to post for fear of being "flamed."

As far as the comment regarding Get Bit, sometimes things do slip by unnoticed. In all the years I ran this forum there was no way I could read every single post made each day. But if another user brought it to my attention and reported a violation, it was handled.

...............

Is there a way to retrieve that deleted post, since the common thread of this thread seems to be the transparency of this whole issue? I think it would at least be fair for the entire exchange here to be visible given the turn of events. I'm pretty sure that comment I saw before it was deleted was a little longer than that.

Kudus to Aleks, Tom, and Norman. Right on.

It is very doubtful that the original poster would be brave enough to talk in person the way he talked "on the internet." In person makes it a lot different. Risky. And more civil.

Probably about time to get back to rod building.

One of the many social media ills (or evils) is that as a result of perceived distance (lack of face to face or direct dialog), anonymity or perceived personal opinion empowerment, a certain percentage of people feel enabled or emboldened to post uncivil or inappropriate statements or comments. It's really too bad and is one of the major drivers, in my opinion, of the divided and divisive state of American society today.

I participate in this forum and another on fly fishing, and a very small percentage of folks just don't get it and feel they must criticize or attack other posters or entities. If the OP had purchased a product at Walmart that he believed to be defective, I doubt he would take it back and, while at the customer service counter, go on a rant to slander and demean Sam Walton.

We can all get a bit emotional or out of hand from time to time, but overall a certain level of decorum and respect is required on the forum.

I'm new here and for that reason I hesitate to comment. That being said, I think Aleks is being overly understanding in reference to the deleted post. "Just kill the thread Elon", which I agree is funny, seems to be a slap at Aleks and therefore NFC's perceived censorship. In my opinion, the OP was implying that being called out for a completely unnecessary and unwarranted personal attack is no different than the dog whistle of the day, Elon is banning people that disagree with him. I am not affiliated with NFC and until recently, have never owned one of their blanks (my firsts are coming in the mail tomorrow) but, the OP was a personal attack on one of the leaders of the industry based on what I'll (loosely) call a difference of opinion. I am not an expert but I can say I have bought new finished rods that looked worse than the blank posted earlier. If the OP had contacted NFC and explained his position first I could see him complaining on the board, minus the personal attack. But to skip any attempt at resolution and jump right into a personal attack seems lower than I would have expected out of this community. Just my 2 cents.

I suspect that most users never really read the forum rules, but it's worth a couple or three minutes to do so. The complete rules for this forum can be found here: [www.rodbuilding.org]

The only thing that has changed is that in addition to the photo page, the new software allows posting photos on the forum via the new forum APP.

............



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/2022 09:04AM by Tom Kirkman.

I hope its ok to mention that photos can also be posted here without the app by using standard HTML coding of image URL address link placed within the coding: [im g]image URL here[/im g]

At my age and with my eyesight getting worse, I cannot use a cellphone for forum activity. I need a bigger screen like this laptop. Trying to work my way through a forum on a cellphone is no fun for me. I need a magnifying glass plus my 3X reading glasses.


[im g ]https://i.imgur.com/IZjcdOj.jpg[/im g]

(Spaces included so HTML coding can be seen hopefully.)







Edited 9 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/2022 09:44AM by Kent Griffith.

I'm proud to be part of this forum because of its civility, quality of information, spirit of sharing, and respect for each person who posts.

This thread proves it to me again and again.

Glenn Tucker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm new here and for that reason I hesitate to
> comment. That being said, I think Aleks is being
> overly understanding in reference to the deleted
> post. "Just kill the thread Elon", which I agree
> is funny, seems to be a slap at Aleks and
> therefore NFC's perceived censorship. In my
> opinion, the OP was implying that being called out
> for a completely unnecessary and unwarranted
> personal attack is no different than the dog
> whistle of the day, Elon is banning people that
> disagree with him. I am not affiliated with NFC
> and until recently, have never owned one of their
> blanks (my firsts are coming in the mail tomorrow)
> but, the OP was a personal attack on one of the
> leaders of the industry based on what I'll
> (loosely) call a difference of opinion. I am not
> an expert but I can say I have bought new finished
> rods that looked worse than the blank posted
> earlier. If the OP had contacted NFC and
> explained his position first I could see him
> complaining on the board, minus the personal
> attack. But to skip any attempt at resolution and
> jump right into a personal attack seems lower than
> I would have expected out of this community. Just
> my 2 cents.

To be fair, and certainly not to defend Marc's personal attack which was absolutely out of line and unwarranted, in that deleted post he mentioned reaching out to NFC for weeks with no response, and said he was willing to share those emails along with the others that were posted.
Again, he was dead wrong in how he handled this, but he was willing to share what brought him to behave that way.