I used the flex coat wrap epoxy that comes in their kit and by the last 2 guides it was hard to get it to settle right. By the last guide it was tugging on my brush bristles. I held the syringes with part A and B for a while to warm them up, measured 3 Cc each, stirred for about 5 min.

I put the epoxy on while it was spinning in my batson dryer - should I just turn by hand instead? I think the slow spinning made it more challenging to put on level and I had to flatten roads often.i mean it really wasn't long to get to the last 2 guides on a 6+1 train.

Also at one point I started to feel a tingle in my throat and it's still kind of there, it also made my eyes water at one point - don you guys wear breathing protection or eye protection when using epoxies?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2022 01:07AM by El Bolinger.

Might be mixing too long. I count to about 150 and have plenty of time to apply it. Also, it could be that you are taking too long in applying it.

Most builders, if they have the equipment, like to spin faster rather than at curing speed when applying. It makes it easier to get square, even edges.

I don't have that capability and I turn by hand. A good hand steadying rest makes a big difference.

I wear corrective glasses, so don't wear anything else on my eyes. I don't have an allergy to epoxy so don't use any breathing equipment. It really doesn't make much in the way of vapors.

El,

Mick has your back on this one.

I don't wear PPE for thread epoxy. Some wear gloves to avoid skin contact with amines. Dust (cork, carbon, foam) is another matter.

Wet the thread with epoxy and it will flatten itself for the most part, so you don't have to worry about brushing it flat. Just touch up any dry spots and leave it alone.

My tendency is to fool with it too much rather than too little.

El,
Before you start to apply finish for a rod build, be sure that you are 100% ready to go, so that you can start and finish your finish application total in 3 minutes.
You really should never have to brush on finish on a rod. The rod should be spinning and when you bring the brush close to the rod, the rod will pull the finish off the brush with little brush action on your part.

When I mix Flex coat, I mix using the aid of the big wall clock on the wall. I mix for exactly 120 seconds using a craft stick or popsicle stock frequently scraping the sides of the 2 oz plastic mixing cup that I use for mixing epoxy.
I use inexpensive disposable brushes for finish application. I never clean any brushes. Rather, I use one brush for each mix of finish. One mix, one brush. I only pay about 5 cents per brush so it is a reasonable way to do it. That means you never have any noxious cleaner fumes to cause health and respiratory issues.

As soon as the 2 minute mix is complete, I start applying finish - beginning at the butt section of the rod.
At this stage, I am concerned only with getting enough finish on the wraps and rods to be sure that every part is covered. Since I apply with a spinning rod at about 40 rpm, the edges are nice and clean.
But at this stage, I do not worry about too much epoxy. I just want enough so that when I come back a 2nd and 3rd trime I will not have to add any additional finish.

To apply finish to the butt wraps and all of the guide wraps take about 3 minutes.

Then, I go back to the beginning with a brush in one hand and a heat gun in the other.. I also use very high intensity lighting and a 2x head band magnifier to see every thing very clearly. I will slow it down a bit to level and dab off any excess finish.
But, I never spend more than about 15 to 20 seconds on any wrap or guide.

Then,I go back a 3rd time for the final final check and do a couple of touch ups in defective areas of the finish - spending about another 1-2 minutes.

I use flex coat high build for all of my finish work and find that in about 95% of the cases, this technique lets me do my finish work in one drying cycle.

The heat gun is a life saver. I use it very very very sparingly and then, only if the finish has gotten a touch thick where it needs to be spread a tad. But finish can really only be warmed slightly one or maybe 2 times. After that the heat has accelerated the "kick" or cure of the epoxy and thus will not soften a 3rd time at all.

Summary, be ready with everything on the rod before starting.
Mix for 120 seconds by the clock.
Apply quickly and generously.
Follow up with slight tweaks and or removal or slight adds of finish to level and smooth the finish.

Use any heat very very sparingly and preferably only once since heat causes the finish to kick or cure much more quickly.

Simply put - with a 2 minute mix and temperatures at 70 degrees, one has just about 5 minutes of finish application. -- i.e. from starting to fill a mixing container, one has about 7 minutes total for finish application.

Note:
If one has a very long butt wrap and or if a person has a very long rod with many guides, just decide to do the finish application in two mixes. i.e. a long butt wrap first and perhaps 1 or 2 guides. Then, stop with the work complete up to this point is perfect and leave the rod turning at slow drying speed, as you mix up a 2nd batch for the remainder of the rods.


Best wishes

You're taking way too long to coat your guides if the finish has thickened to the point that it's pulling on your brush bristles. It only takes 20 seconds to coat a guide wrap - any longer than that and you're doing things you don't need to do. Try this: [www.youtube.com] .

................

EL,
I attempted to send you a failproof remedy to your epoxy curing before you finish the rod. But your email is incorrect. You can email me at hladen@hotmail.com and I will forward it to you.
Herb

If you would like to talk about this, give me a call at 512-858-7742.

Flex Coat Company
Professional Rod Building Supplies
www.flexcoat.com

Really appreciate the feedback yall. I've seen some dudes, and some people that appear to be well respected in the rod building community recommend using a small metal spatula to mix and apply - Maybe I'll give that a go as well as I bought a small nail care set at the dollar tree for the cuticle scissors and spatula like tool that came with it.

So it would be better for me to turn the rod by hand rather than use the dryer to rotate it is what I'm gathering.

I think I spent more time on each wrap because it was spinning so slow that I got ahead of the epoxy and it left waves behind so I had to go back over the same wrap.

@ROGER thank you for the play by play, I don't have a heat gun and hear mixed thoughts on using a regular lighter - but maybe I'll give it a go and see what happens. Is the breath through a straw method effective as well?

I definitely felt an eye tingle as well as a throat tingle, I'll throw some glasses on next time and maybe try not to let the epoxy sit close enough to me for fumes to hit me - I could definitely smell it which is literally the scent of the fumes.

@HERB - I thought my email was not hidden, I don't know what email you used but I get email alerts from rb.org so its in the system correct. I'll email you, thanks!

@JOHN Much appreciation and respect for the offer, I think I'll take you up on it and give you a call this afternoon.

El - Your email address is hidden to other members. To unhide your email click on the Control center button at the top of the page. Click on edit email preferences, and then check the box allowing other members to see your email.
Norm

All - what is the consensus on number of coats of wrap epoxy to apply? Is one sufficient for most light freshwater rods (Bass, Walleye, Panfish)? Thanks all.

El,

Epoxy is self leveling. Put it on and let it do what does. You do not need to spend time brushing it around trying to make it level. It'll do that on its own provided you aren't putting on too much epoxy.

...........

Kevin, for my freshwater rods I often get by with one coat of lite, but often also have a nubbin or thin spot to fix, so a second thin coat goes onto at least some of the guides. The butt wrap areas often get two since I often have to fix a dust spec or two. My space is far from a clean room.

But you want to minimize the epoxy build to the minimum that works since all weight, especially on the tip area, will slow the recovery speed of the blank.

There are some rough spots on the wraps, I'm assuming it's from some stray thread flares and my first attempt at an olive branch, the wraps done later after I got the feel for wrapping are much smoother - but I also glossed more epoxy on as I felt it tacking and rushed to make sure I got enough on.

Cam I put a coat of Gen 4 over the flex coat? I want to see how that handles in comparison.

If I may ask a question regarding the application of epoxy to the "tunnels" created by the interface of the guide and the blank...I use a turning motor whose RPM is about 4 to 6. I don't remember off hand. I'm pretty sure I bought it from Flex Coat, in about the mid eighties. A little slow perhaps, but it works great!

I always find myself having to stop the motor after applying the finish to the wraps, in order to fill the tunnels so to speak. I have found that trying to manipulate the epoxy with the brush in order to finagle it into the void gets the job done, but usually leaves me with an unsightly amount of finish that extends away from the opening of the tunnel. I either use a very small and well pointed brush for this, or a tooth pick or sewing needle or the like. It seems to work fine, but does take a lot more time to facilitate.

Is there a better method?

El,
Apparently your body is ulta sensitive to epoxy; you will have to take adequate and appropriate measures to protect yourself. While there must be others with similar sensitivities, it is safe to say that the majority have no issues.
You are just starting rod building and hence are on the steep part of the learning curve; we’ve all been there. The more experience you gain, the better, easier and quicker the processes and final product will become. DON’T PUSH IT!!! If you take longer to apply thread finish = so be it! Use 2, 3 or however many batches of epoxy it may take to coat your wraps. Epoxy nearing its pot life will not perform as intended using a fresh batch. Risking a poor looking wrap to save $1.00 worth of epoxy is foolish. Don’t over-stretch your abilities, otherwise you are doomed to frustration and sub-par rods.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

You are correct to be concerned about PPE and allergic reactions to epoxy. It can be bad - very bad - if you are allergic.

it's something known to chemists as BISPHENOL A which is in the epoxy resin and which is the usual offender. And if you thin the finish epoxy using acetone to about the viscosity of whole milk to make clear wraps you are at even greater serious risk as acetone readily passes into the skin.

Consider gloves mandatory from epoxy component measuring to mixing, application and clean up. Glasses are a good idea. And you need either a continuous source of fresh air or a vapor respirator, some of which include eye protection.

Don't mess around if you have any allergic reaction symptoms. Protect yourself. The cost of gloves and a fresh air source or respirator are nothing compared to what the allergic reaction can be. Been there, done that, got the T shirt.

Got it, I'll be careful and quicker with it all and I think turning by hand will help.

But what are your thoughts on a layer of Gen4 over the flex coat?

Ernie,
With respect to finish application speed.

When I first started, I used a 6 rpm drying motor to apply finish.
But over the years, I have evolved to using my power wrapper.
So, I generally apply the bulk of the finish at 20-50 rpm - depending on the wrap.
Yes, for every guide foot - I stop the rod completely to fill in around the tunnels. That way you can make sure that you are getting it where you want it. But it only takes about 5 seconds to do the tunnels and then I start up again.

As Mr. Kirkman has said so many times in the past - no need to really do any brushing so to speak. With a loaded finish brush, one simply holds the brush close to the wrap and the spinning rod will essentially pull the finish right off the brush. Then, the nature of the epoxy, the epoxy will self level.

To apply finish I often use Flex Coat nylon brushes - that work well.
But recently I came across these brushes

[www.amazon.com]

That have some extra width and a bit more stiffness that also work very well.

Note:
I never clean any finish brushes. Rather I purchase inexpensive brushes that work well and use one brush for each mix of epoxy that I make.
With no cleaner, no hassle, no fumes, no mess and every brush is fresh and does a perfect job, whether it is a flex coat brush or a different brush.

Best wishes

The man that taught me rod building taught me using pieces of credit card to apply the epoxy so that is how I do it. I have never even tried the brush method, never seen a need to. I had some problems one time with my epoxy not curing completely and stayed tacky. I was not mixing the epoxy long enough so I started timing the mix process at 2 minutes, I think 5 minutes is too long. I do wear prescription glasses but if I didn't need them to see I probably wouldn't wear any PPE. I did try some different epoxies over the many years I been doing this, and only 1 gave off fumes that bothered me, I can't remember which one. So, no respirator for me.
Steve

El,
Looking for a different epoxy to solve your problems is working in reverse; most epoxies are slight variations on the same theme. Better to fine-tune your own personal skills and then all the epoxies will work for you.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.