I know in the past Kistler used NFC blanks, can anybody share their experience/data with the new Kistler rods/blanks?

Have heard mixed reviews on them. Some say they are just as good as NFC (which I doubt as a couple are sponsored by Kistler), and others claim they aren’t nearly as crisp or as sensitive as the pre 2022 rods. i have a hard time spending $250 for a blank knowing I can get an XRay or even a SCV for less.

Our Story

Our company was born in a Texas garage. After Trey Kistler returned home from serving in the Gulf War, he went to work with his father building fishing rods. When his dad retired, Trey decided to blaze his own trail. He decided to make an exciting life for himself, his wife and four babies. He decided to create some solid American jobs. And he decided to try and catch as many fish as possible. So he set himself to the task of making the best bass fishing rod out there. We, and Trey, wouldn’t have it any other way. If his family name is going to be on it, it’s going to be the best. Kistler products are excellent. Period. They are the most sensitive, the most responsive, the most trustworthy. When you hold one of our rods, you know you’re holding something special.

We. Love. Bass. And we love fishing. And we love the strong community that is fishing. We make rods and reels for pros, for tournament anglers, and for obsessed anglers who live to catch the most and catch the biggest, because that’s our goal, too. We don’t sit on our laurels. We are restless. There’s always a bigger fish to catch. So we push ourselves to test, innovate, and make our products and your fishing experience the very best. We build our rods in America in a small building full of new ideas and full of our Kistler family. The best design, materials, and components. The best service. The best feel and strength. Your best day on the water. As we said before, Trey wouldn’t have it any other way.
A Letter From Trey Kistler

President of Kistler Custom Fishing Rods.

First, thank you for checking out Kistler. We are a family centered company with endless drive to help you make the most out of every day you fish.

As Founder and President of Kistler, I’ve had the privilege of building and innovating fishing rods for over 28 years. I’ve learned not only the essentials of making an excellent fishing rod, but also, and most importantly, I’ve learned to stay true to our values: God, family and you, our customer. Staying true to our values has been the cornerstone of Kistler, a company obsessed with developing the most advanced bass fishing rods available.

I believe there is no better way to get something done than to do it yourself. Each Kistler Custom Rod is handcrafted in the USA, under our own roof.

We are a team and a family. When you hold a Kistler rod, you can feel the time and love that goes into each one. Innovative design, the highest quality materials and components are just a few key ingredients in our special recipe. The result? Unmatched flow, strength, and sensitivity running through each Kistler rod.

I’ve been a fisherman for over 40 years and have been building rods for almost 30. I know what sets a rod apart from the others. You can’t just let them run down a factory assembly line. The hands that build each rod must care - and truly know what a premium rod feels like. It’s more than a job. It’s passion that bleeds into each Kistler rod.

Volume is not our goal, quality is. Kistler could easily choose to have a huge warehouse full of workers, pumping out rods. But I wouldn’t feel good about putting my trusted Kistler name on rods like that. If we did it that way, you’d have your average, cookie cutter rod, mass produced with no skill, no feel, no passion or attention to detail. That’s not what I’ve chosen to do. Instead, I choose to stand behind each loyal angler that stands behind Kistler, year after year. We’ve added new, quality-ensuring steps in our build process, instead of stripping important steps out. These extra steps can been seen and felt in every cast and hook set. Taking an extra step, going the extra mile. Yes, the details matter. Our attitude is what makes Kistler a leader in the rod building industry.

We never bend what we stand for. We stand behind our beliefs. We are blessed and appreciate each one of our loyal customers. You allow us to do what we love every single day. Thank you for being a part of the Kistler family. One of my primary goals has always been to provide a company that people are proud to work for, and to make a product that people are proud to own. Living for others is the ultimate path to true happiness. That, and fishing. This is just how we choose to live.

Your fellow fisher of men, —Trey Kistler

--------------------------------------------------------------

Made in America, and born and made in the South mentality.

The key word above "Texas" to the history of Kistler not mentioned on their website is that early connection to Gary Loomis and that "other" Texas rod making company factory built by Don Mook while he was at the same time working with and for Gary Loomis and LCI as I recall. There is most definitely an early connection there.

I would say today in 2022 in my opinion, that the Kistler brand is a derivative legacy of Gary Loomis and Don Mook and Brett Chapman? and Morgan McCain. Loomis and Mook's LCI made blanks originally for Morgan McCain's All Star rods in Texas, and later on when sold to Brett Chapman I think is when he brought in Don Mook to construct the All Star rod factory in Houston and began making his own rods for All Star same as Kistler did. And it is my understanding that when All Star went out of business that CastAway rods began using same Don Mook factory and making similar to All Star blanks based off Don Mook's original designs. And it was from this one Houston factory now making CastAway rods is from where Trey Kistler's father emerged to begin making their own Kistler rods no doubt all based off of the knowledge learned from inside of that Don Mook factory for All Star and CastAway. A passed down legacy for sure.

Kistler makes an excellent rod no doubt about it.

I have a super rare rod made by Trey Kistler for Ray Scott signature line that is super lightweight. An amazing rod. And I just resold a nice hefty Kistler custom because I never used it. Just too much rod for bass fishing so I sold it into the inshore market for big reds and snook. The ONLY reason I kept it was because it was a Kistler and such a great reputation and great rod, but after using it a few times I put it away and went back to a more balanced rod for the application. That Kistler rod is a beast and hopefully now will be put to good use rather than collecting dust in my collection, but if I come across Kistler rods in the used tackle biz I'll grab them when I can. Kistler is in my top 10 of U.S made rods right up there with Loomis and Shikari and. CastAway, and Graphite USA made by top secret spy Richard Kantner, Batson's RainShadow and Falcon, Stiffy rods former made by Kevin Shaw, and All Star and Airrus. And yes, All Star made an incredible rod too when that Houston factory first opened up. My rod with the highest resonant pitch sound when tapped is an All Star. Loomis are lower tones.

Don Mook did something unique when that factory first opened up and no one has come close since. Well, not true. A couple have, but the one of note is in UK making fly fishing rods similar to what Don Mook came up with side stepping LCI at the time. Night and day difference between an LCI and Don Mook All Star rod blanks. One could lay them side by side and consider that the same people did NOT make both. That different.

Don Mook also built the factory in Oklahoma that created Shikari and Falcon rods. Don Mook is behind a lot more than we know and one day his story needs to be told. I know Gary Loomis has his own story to tell concerning his past with Don Mook and LCI and I got to hear some of it at most recent ICAST and was grateful to hear it! What a legend! Thanks Aleks! No need to mention that Loomis tops my list. Airrus has risen to top 3 in last couple of years.

The one blank brand I am wanting to get into is Get Bit OutDoors line of rods called Liberty rods, that are said to be made in USA, but location of origin is kept top secret for some reason. I can't find out where they are made or who is making them and at what factory location. This is important to me to know. I want to know who makes my fishing rods. And Trey Kistler and Kistler family are one of the best!

At this level of high quality fishing rods, going back and forth between Loomis and Kistler and Airrus is like eating high end sushi and having different flavors is all. You can't go wrong with any of them. But you can enjoy ALL of them!



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 12/26/2022 09:05AM by Tom Kirkman.

I found another historical quote supposedly from Trey Kistler:

December 20, 2010, 09:27:31 AM

Grab a drink, sit back and enjoy some very interesting facts about how Kistler Rods has made it through some rough roads, including the warranties on thousands of defective graphite blanks over the past 12 years as we continue to learn and accept how all things are a part of God's plan whether we like it or not.

Many anglers have been inquiring as to what has been happening with Kistler Rods over the past few years and inaccurate information has been given which has fueled a variety of false rumors thus wrongly explaining the truth about our history in the rod business. I am here to clarify to all those wanting to hear the true story about the ups and downs of Kistler Rods going all the way back to the company’s beginning in 1999. It is a long story but if one is searching for answers, there must be details to support the facts.

It all started in my garage with a giant order from a good customer of my father’s after he left Castaway Rods. Like most of the rod companies in the world today, we too had to rely on other graphite blank factories to make our blanks. We chose to use a US based graphite blank factory that we will call Factory A to protect their identity. They were happy to supply me with 4,000 blanks in order for me to produce high quality American made rods for my customer. During the startup year of 1999, we designed over a dozen bass specific actions with the help of Factory A and their 30 years of expertise with graphite. I originally chose Factory A because of a working relationship I had developed while employed at Castaway, I experienced firsthand the quality and anglers satisfaction from using their blanks on specific Castaway rods.

Fast forward a few years into the rod business, Factory A began to lesson their on quality on our blanks as well as ship us inconsistent blank actions. Kistler Rods had to warranty, at no charge to the consumer, over 20% of our rods due to defects in materials that Factory A built for us. To my surprise, Factory A did not accept responsibility for the defects and it cost Kistler Rods thousands of dollars which is a ton of money to a small business. After that disappointing set of events, we began searching for a new US based blank supplier, we found two. So in order to become diversified, we started working with both at the same time. Factory B began building our IM7 blanks and Factory C began building our Helium LTA blanks.

Both had good quality and supplied our needs sufficiently although we did have some design issues causing breakage which Kistler Rods honored warranties 100% with no support from our suppliers. We did create quite a buzz in the rod industry with our new Helium “lighter than air” rods all the while providing anglers with the lightest rod ever. One could argue that we created the trend to push the envelope in lighter weight rods that we all enjoy today. Well all good things must come to an end, so they say. Factory C began to have problems supplying the numbers we needed to keep up with demand and was concentrating on their own line of rods. This was the second time a rod/blank company would shift their efforts away from supporting Kistler Rods to their own needs. In my opinion, it was because Kistler Rods had become a big competitor in their own market.

Factory B later decided to close up operations and begin producing their blanks in China forcing Kistler for the first time to use a blank not made in America. We had no choice at this time as there were no other blank factories in the US willing to support our business. The move came swiftly and the outcome was good for all involved. Kistler Rods would now have very high quality blanks coming from one source again, the price was fair and the supply was always right on time. Everything worked out great for our customers and things were looking good but I didn’t like being tied up with only one factory and wanted to be diversified again just in case we had to go through another challenge with the new Factory B in China.

I was again forced to search overseas for a supplier already knowing that there were no other US based factory ready to supply Kistler Rods. After a yearlong search, I did find a Factory D that was willing to allow me to become intimately involved in the designing, testing and innovating aspects of our Magnesium and Helium LTX rods. I worked very diligently in the testing of each rod model for the next 6 months to perfect each line of rods in order to show them off at the 2005 ICAST show in Vegas. What an awesome show that was during our very first exhibit to the world that year. Kistler Rods had everyone’s head turned and the attention of the world because of our innovative approach to rod design. On a side note, the following years, the world witnessed their favorite rod company following Kistler’s lead in rod development and now today, the face of a fishing rod has totally changed thanks in part to the custom rod builder ideas I listened to and offered to the public.

Lighting strikes again….after our first shipment of Magnesium and Helium LTX rods began to hit the fisherman’s hands, we immediately realized that they were not built like the sample rods I had once tested and approved. Somehow, my factory in China, changed my design instructions which caused many of the rods to break very easily while fishing under a load. Again, Kistler Rods replaced these models at no charge 100% which was once again a big hit to Kistler Rods cash flow. Over the next two to three years, we struggled with consistency on these blanks coming from this Factory D in China all the while, taking care of warranties and provided thousands of high quality rods to our new and loyal customers. Until that final straw that broke the camel’s back…we just could not continue to do business in this way….we were shipped the worst quality product I had seen from my Factory D ever. 33% breakage across the board was the result after we tested each blank before building into a rod. Once again, we were abandoned by our factory with no support or credit that would cover the tens of thousands of dollars it cost Kistler Rods. Not to mention, we lost sales because we did not have the blanks needed to produce the rods everyone had come to love over the years and the negative impact of word of mouth.

At least we had our Factory C in China producing great blanks for us still. After leaving factory D for good, we decide to look back in the US for a blank factory and found Factory E. Wanting to bring back the USA made product, we decided to have our Helium LTA blanks once again made in the US again. Oh what a big mistake that was! We ended up with a 50% breakage within the first year during 2008. Here is where the Perfect Storm began…

We actually had to take 1,000 completely built rods and severely test them at our office in order to weed out the 500 defective blanks but this was after we had shipped over 1,000 rods within the first month. Also, we had another 1,000 blanks in house and another 1,000 on purchase orders shipping monthly. Well, one can begin to get the idea that this was not a profitable business scenario. During this year, Kistler Rods had to warranty thousands of rods at no charge plus shipping costs to take care of legitimate claims from these Helium LTA and other Magnesium and Helium LTX rod claims. On top of that, we continued to receive the hundreds of old, used warranty claims in monthly most of which we had proved to not be defects in workmanship or materials, just the typical angler accidents, normal wear and tear and abuse of the system created in the rod industry over the last 20 years.

Back to the Perfect Storm… I had been dreaming about producing our own graphite blanks ever since Factory A had abandoned us and what better time to do it than now. We hired a 30 year veteran graphite blank engineer, placed cash deposits on machinery in the amount of $75,000 and began the expensive expansion plans to build our own blanks. Well, if you remember the crash of 2008, you will understand how it all just fell apart for Kistler Rods and we lost every penny of that investment into the future. We were not selling many rods but the fishermen were sending warranty rods in more than ever because they all still wanted new rods. That in itself is a losing business practice and we had to begin enforcing the longstanding written policies of our prorated limited lifetime warranty. Well dealers and anglers both did not like that one bit and rebelled against us immediately. Kistler Rods was either going to give every rod away for free or at cost on warranty claims that were not true defects or Kistler Rods would try to survive the Perfect Storm by implementing our prorated warranty that we so long ignored when sales were good enough to support a low return rate. What would you have done?

Fast forward one year…75% of our dealers no longer did business with us except returning old, used rods in for warranty. Our big box chain stores decide to abandon forecasted purchase orders only to leave Kistler’s inventory overstocked and our credit line bank account maxed out. What could we do but liquidate and blowout rods on clearance just to produce enough cash flow to pay our suppliers and employees. Lord knows I didn’t want to have yet another lay off of half my staff like we did in 2008.

God says in His word…”All things work together for the good of those who love the Lord”. Now that is easier said than it is to accept. But after all these trials and tribulations, through hundreds of prayers asking God for His will to be done in my business and life, He was faithful. I had been dreaming and praying for a way to have the highest quality, most consistent, strongest, lightest and most sensitive blanks so that my customers could catch fish like never before. We’ll God has answered loud and clear in His timing, only 10 years later in our time.

Kistler Rods has been working with the number one Factory E in China for two years now and our blanks and rods have never been better. There is no breakage issue, no quality issue, and no problems at all and our customers can attest to this fact if they own a 2009 or 2010 Magnesium or Helium LTA or Helium LTX rod. Kistler Rods has taken its quality control to the highest level that even the Japanese rods built by our Factory E in China do not even have to meet such strict tolerances. In fact, my staff inspects each rod individually before we certify it “fish ready”. We have averaged less than 1% return on these rods since we instituted our new standards in quality control.

After a chance meeting that only God could have arranged with the legend Gary Loomis in the airport on my way back from the 2009 ICAST, I began a relationship with him and his new company North Fork Composites . That next week I had one goal in mind, to work toward building the perfect bass blank. Gary and I met eye to eye and face to face the following month to developed 6 different bass specific actions using his highest modulus graphite materials and proven expertise. My dream was to offer the serious angler a totally new rod concept using Gary’s 35 years of experience in the graphite business and my 18 years of experience in the rod business. After 9 months, we had done what we set out to do and unveiled the new Z bone LE rod blanks in March of 2010.

Thousands of Z bone rods are being fished with today by anglers that were looking for something truly better and surprisingly different. We are happy to say that our expectations were more than exceeded and the results are overwhelming after you read the testimonies of Z bone rod owners. The quality is so high on the final Z bone LE blanks that we have yet to have one come back broken due to a defect or material issue. Gary and my name are on the line and we intend to keep our names clean for the rest of our days in the rod business. You can count on us to guarantee the utmost quality and customer service for years to come thanks to all the bad things that worked together for good in the end, thanks to God’s promise found in the Holy Bible in Romans 8:28. Trey Kistler

Thanks for the in depth info! They certainly seem like good people, and I wish I coulda got my hands on those top quality builds. I've also got some homwork to do becuase KENT mentioned a few companies and people I've never heard of before.

Now I want an Airrus rod with a megaphone grip though haha

I'll be honest, I just saw half off at Kistler but when I saw the priced out component options I thought "now that I build rods I know that cost $30 less and that cost $120 less so even half off I'm better to build it myself"

But the only lingering question was "is it still worth it to get the blank"?

As it pertains to Loomis, Kistler, Airrus, and any other top quality rods available are comparable blanks/tech available for us to build on? Looking at Airrus they certainly make it seem like they found grandmas long lost secret recipe for rod building.

The rod blank is already a natural megaphone and the grip is on the output end anyway so why not create a handle that is an extension of the natural megaphone we hold in our hands to fish with. It seems like a logical next step. Wonder why no one else came up with it before now? If they have, I am not aware of it.

And I am not sure what you are saying or asking about the priced out components options. Not sure if you are referring to blanks or finished rods ready to fish? Ya lost me there. But yeah, build it yourself and "feel" twice as good about using it. And yes, if a Kistler, I'd say the blank is well worth getting. Variety is the spice of life they say...

And as for the Airrus flavor... truly exceptional. I had never heard of them either until I came across one with a Shimano Chronarch MG righty on it. They had a price on combo for $125 in a pawn shop and I arrived on a mark down day and they dropped it to $75 and I think I wound up buying it for $65 plus tax and even traded some junk in and got more off the price in the end. At time I worked for a rod and reel repair shop in Florida, and so I rebuilt the reel to like new and put it up for sale in our display case and was soon handed $100 cash just for the reel. So that pawn shop wound up paying me like $25 just to take that rod off their hands for free!

I'm not sure what the story is on the Airrus rod I bought by blind luck, but I've spent some years in the used tackle biz and I did not notice at the time I purchased this particular rod that it was a 2 piece. I could not believe it. They hid the joint under the wrappings of a guide and I missed it. And the only reason I found it was because I used the rod and grew to like it and so I decided to turn it into a Cagey Hook Wrap version of spiral wrapping and once that was done- and I also hid the joint under guide thread wrappings so no one else can tell either, but you know it fishes like a single rod and for my style of bass fishing in open water chasing schoolies with a rat'l trap or similar like swimbait, the rod is incredible. And it surprises me because I have always sworn by single piece rods as giving the best performance and this Airrus has certainly been a surprising eye opener just because of how good of a rod it is. Perfect is a word I could use and then cringe thinking about the joint I need to try and ignore.

I don't believe Airrus does all their rods this way. The one I have is an older rod from their earlier days and is long since discontinued and today I would not know which of their current lineup is comparable or derivative construction of this rod. But I can say this... after fishing for bass since 1968, and working in and around tackle for many years repairing and using, I can say I have used a lot of rods in my time and few rise up to the top. Airrus shot straight to near the top almost instantly in my book and that is from just one mid-line level rod from years ago. I bet today their high end rods are as good as anything out there. But I can't say as I don't buy new especially at those prices- some of their rods exceed $500 and $600 retail. I like it better when someone is paying me to take the rod.

I mentioned that Trey Kistler made rod for Ray Scott signature line. I do believe it is derivative of the Helium line because of how lightweight the rod is and super sensitive. Just an incredible rod Kistler made for Ray Scott. I lucked into inside another pawn shop find with shimano reel on it. I buy it cheap, keep the rod and resell the reel and get my money back and rods for free a lot of the time- just buying and selling and trading.

And I'll say this... until ICAST 2022, I'd have to say the lightest rod in my collection was the Kistler made Ray Scott spinning rod with Tennessee handle.



Ray Scott above is holding one of the rods Trey Kistler made for his signature series SportsTackle line. This rod weighs 2.3 ounces. And this was 20 to 30 years ago? To date it was the lightest most sensitive rod I owned besides my crystal rod also made in Don Mook's Houston factory.

But at 2022 ICAST Aleks Maslov and my hero rod maker Gary Loomis put their latest and greatest into my hands and I must say the Kistler is no longer the lightest rod.

HOLD THE LINE... I just checked.

According to what I find online the new Edge Epitome is 2.9 ounces. That's still .6 ounces heavier than my old Ray Scott rod made by Kistler. But at this level, who's counting. I don't think I can tell a .6 ounce difference.

"Scott's spinning rod design weighs only 2.3 ounces. "Don't confuse light weight with a wimpy, ultralight rod," he said. "This stick has the butt strength to handle a bruiser-size bass, but a taper and tip to easily cast lures as light as 1/16-ounce on 4-pound-test line."

To reduce weight and increase sensitivity, the one-piece blank is constructed through a cork handle with no reel seat or heavy hardware. This is known as a "Tennessee handle," where the reel is mounted with electrical tape.

The rods also have smaller guides. "Conventional spinning rods feature an oversize stripper guide and normal-size guide placement," Scott said. "With a smaller-size stripper guide and by reducing the overall guide sizes, there's less line drag and slap on the cast which improves casting distance and accuracy."

Now I'm curious who does hold the record?

Here's Ray Scott in his own words describing some changes for his rod design Kistler made for him:

"Using plastic tape, I affixed the reel on the Tennessee handle of a 7-foot custom-made Ray Scott Sportackle-design rod. Like the reel, the rod is lightweight (only 2.6 ounces), with a fast-taper tip, but also has a solid butt section for setting the hook and playing a larger bass.

This is a rod design I've spent many years testing and improving, just as Fred Kemp has tinkered with his spinning reel. The rod is as fundamentally different as Fred's big spool, notably with my concept of the smaller guides. For example, the first stripper guide located ahead of the spool is about the size of a dime as compared to the half-dollar-size diameter on conventional spinning rods.

The smaller the guides, the better the casting accuracy and distance -- the theory being quicker loops coming off the spool and line slap on the blank being reduced or totally eliminated. That means less resistance and added distance on the cast.

But with the SuperCaster's larger spool and consequent bigger loops, I wondered whether the line would snarl in the downsized stripper guide. Only one way to find out. I rigged a 4-inch Slider worm with a 1/16-ounce head, aimed at a stickup and flicked my wrist. The tiny Slider worm took off like a rocket.

Distance was no problem. And by feathering the line on the spool's rim, the lure settled softly on the edge of the target.

I'd like to say the first cast produced a "thump" and a resulting 6-pound bass. But that sequence would be later.

Cast after cast, the reel and rod combination performed. Distance and accuracy were as advertised. Line twist? No problem.

Curious about how the drag system would fare, I got my answer when that 6- pounder inhaled the Slider.

First, on line-light (4-pound test), you sweep the rod and grind the sharp wire hook with quick turns of the reel handle into the fish's jaw. The 28 inches of line per handle turn worked great.

Now, I'm playing the bass with the 7-foot rod's action and paying a mind to the reel's drag adjustment. It's a smooth drag, working against the fish's power -- and that's good, because with light-line fishing, your mind, body and tackle need to function as one. Any mistake or tackle flaw will go in the fish's favor. "


And here is the only mention of this rod creation at 2.3 ounces to be found by Trey Kistler:

"Another great memory was helping Ray Scott design and perfect his light tackle spinning rods. I still have a few prototypes I use when fishing for fun. Ray was by far my toughest customer to please but I know now why he is so successful in everything he touches."

Imagine that! Trey Kistler himself still uses the prototypes for this super light rod. I think they made 3 or 4 in this series and I have only one and cannot locate a second one. They are that hard to find because sales were so low.

Due to the lightweight nature of this rod, I would only use it open water conditions for fish under 5 or 6 pounds. Rods like these cannot be used in Florida's heavy jungle cover. Well you can, but you risk losing the rod.


Concerning that Houston factory where all of this came out of... the All Star blanks, the CastAway blanks, and possibly Kistler blanks and others...

This is more or less the legacy of Don Mook. From what I gather he and Gary Loomis were in business with LCI plus I think Gary said he had two other investors in LCI with him and Don. So while these 4 men are developing the LCI line of rods, Don Mook, the man who built that LCI rod blank making factory was getting calls from other people to come build rod blank factories for them too.

At the time the founder of All Star rods Morgan McCain was sourcing his blanks from LCI and slapping All Star brand on them. These rods still demand good prices on various websites for sale. Regularly going over $100 each for 40 plus year old rods. So when Morgan McCain sold All Star rods to the Crawford investment family with I think his name was Brett Crawford at head of family investments, it was Brett coming into All Star who decided to stop buying LCI blanks and instead start making his own. And so he calls up Don Mook who is at the time selling rods to Brett Crawford and All Star rods as his customer, now wants him to build his factory so he is no longer a customer to LCI and Don Mook does it. And he builds factories in Oklahoma, Washington State, Oregon, and god only knows how many rod blank factories Don Mook has had a hand in. But the one in question in this thread is that Houston factory for All Star and CastAway from which Kistler emerged out of.

I gotta say that whatever Don Mook did down in Houston was one of a kind at the time- especially when compared to what he and Gary Loomis were making at same time through LCI were night and day different. Basically, as I see it looking back, the LCI blanks were large and bulky in size with larger diameter blanks and possibly thinner walls as well. And the epoxy binder was different.

And so Don Mook steps out of this LCI situation and builds that Houston factory and now all of a sudden the rods coming off the line there are pencil thin, and dam near solid with thicker walls twice or three times as thick as LCI blanks. But the epoxy binder is where the secret is I am told by the MHX blank designer. The high pitch sound it makes when tapped almost rings and I call it my crystal rod. I have no other rods like it, even all the Loomis rods are nothing like what came out of Houston. One of a kind. Found this quote online:

"LCI was sold by blank and rod designer Don Mook around 1990/91. It was at the very beginning known as Osprey, and has been the Talon Factory for quite some time now.
Don Mook left around 1992/93, and then built the Tridon Factory that is now Shikari in Oklahoma. He moved back to Longview in 1994, and built the Cascade Graphite Factory for Pacific Bay. In 1997, the new owners of Pacific Bay decided to close it down, and sold off the equipment.
Don has been the GM and blank designer at All Star for the last four years. I believe that he is looking forward to sometime moving back to his home in the Northwest.
I have used Don as a supplier of rod blanks through all of these years, as he is one of the top designers in the country.
We are fortunate to have very good blank designers in this country (especially the Northwest), that are also experienced in composite materials and resin systems.
I hope this answered your question about what ever happened to LCI."


So the point is, Don Mook deserves a lot more credit than he gets, and its his legacy from Houston that produced that 2.3 ounce Kistler rod 20 to 30 years ago.


"I'm finding a lot of contrary information on LCI / LCI Excelon. One comment was that Excelon were LCI's superior model (to the Striker and Striker II) but others suggest that Loomis Composites Industries became LCI Excelon Inc. when Gary Loomis left LCI circa 1983.

If it's not too much trouble, grandad keith, what markings are on your rod?

Interestingly, in the final post here by Brett Crawford, co-owner of All Star (USA blank makers), he says,

LCI rods were designed and built by Don Mook who owned LCI. Gary Loomis was a partner and the salesman for the company. Gary left to form G- Loomis, and now Don Mook works for me at All Star.

So, how much input into their rod designs did Gary Loomis have? Mr. Crawford makes it sound like none."



And there it is...

The early connection of Kistler to Loomis was through Don Mook, but what happened down in Houston had virtually NOTHING to do with Gary Loomis. Its all Don Mook.

This one is not a Gary Loomis legacy. If you read the Trey Kistler messages above it says his contact with Gary Loomis is more recent:

"After a chance meeting that only God could have arranged with the legend Gary Loomis in the airport on my way back from the 2009 ICAST, I began a relationship with him and his new company North Fork Composites . That next week I had one goal in mind, to work toward building the perfect bass blank. Gary and I met eye to eye and face to face the following month to developed 6 different bass specific actions using his highest modulus graphite materials and proven expertise. My dream was to offer the serious angler a totally new rod concept using Gary’s 35 years of experience in the graphite business and my 18 years of experience in the rod business. After 9 months, we had done what we set out to do and unveiled the new Z bone LE rod blanks in March of 2010.

Thousands of Z bone rods are being fished with today by anglers that were looking for something truly better and surprisingly different. We are happy to say that our expectations were more than exceeded and the results are overwhelming after you read the testimonies of Z bone rod owners. The quality is so high on the final Z bone LE blanks that we have yet to have one come back broken due to a defect or material issue. Gary and my name are on the line and we intend to keep our names clean for the rest of our days in the rod business. "


I just looked at Don Mook's legacy and even the CastAway rods made in Houston factory have exact same color and similar construction to what Don Mook first produced some 40 years ago for Brett Crawford and All Star rods. That said, this castaway blank is ticker in diameter than my old Don Mook All Star rods, and my god it looks like they poured buckets of epoxy all over the blank. Layered epoxy one after another. Yuck! This is why I prefer unfinished raw blanks. Keep the paint and epoxy off my blanks please!



So there we have it. Kistler and Loomis were not really connected at beginning. It was Kistler and Don Mook and Brett Crawford.

So does Kistler still hold the record at 2.3 or has Gary Loomis "caught up" to Don Mook's hidden legacy and surpassed him by now?

Something strange happened down in Houston 40 some odd years ago, and I sure wish some good investigative journalist would dig into this story and find Brett Crawford and Don Mook and get this full story. I've only been able to piece bits and pieces of it together and really enjoyed being able to ask Gary Loomis in person about this story and get some of his side in it all. Very interesting indeed! Makes using their rods even more enjoyable.

Trey got in trouble when he began outsourcing. For us USA-only guys that's a sin.

Trey, you gotta actually make your own rods my good man! You get into trouble with your patriotic market when you outsource!



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2022 03:27PM by Kent Griffith.

I am from the Houston area. Fishing East Galveston bay during the 80s and using All Star rods and Shimano Bantam baitcaster reels. That was the chit back then, casting Rapala Jumping minnows and Corkys along with plastic popping shrimp. If I broke a guide or something else (never broke an All Star rod) I would go to the factory and they would replace it or the whole rod. Still have a few of those rods along with a LCI. Started building my own in 1989 and used All Star and G Loomis blanks for bay rods and Sage blanks for fly rods. Thanks for the history, I never knew the whole story but I guess I was a small part of it along with the other guys that used their products.

Man I'm diggin the history lesson, got me curious to learn more. How'd you find all that info?

Google- and being retired and have too much time too dig around for it!

Just pick up a little piece up here and there... like this one... another derivative of this same legacy... I guess when I get a rod in my hands I want to know more about it and where it came from and who. I want to know the who behind my rods. When they are made in China fishermen here in USA have nameless faces making their rods you will never hear or know their names or who they are or anything about them. Your rods come out of a dark hole, an empty void called China. I want to know...

May 2013
Fishing Tackle Innovation from Tour Star
Everett Johnson


Today's younger generation of anglers have no clue how fortunate they are. As a youngster I fished with my granddad's hand-me-downs; direct drive knuckle-buster reels filled with Dacron line and rods made with steel blanks. My first good casting outfit, purchased when $3.00 was a decent hourly wage, was much better but probably still weighed close to two pounds. A two-handed cast would launch a heavy spoon nearly out of sight but an all-day session was torture. The rigs I currently fish are sensitive beyond belief and so light that some actually float!

So if it took homo sapiens several thousand years to finally devise a primitive rod and reel system for fishing, how was this present evolution in modern tackle accomplished in such a relatively short time?

Innovation and adaptation! Incredible advances in materials science and manufacturing technology developed for a host of industries has been adapted and applied to fishing tackle.

Brett Crawford is one such innovator. If the name doesn't ring a bell, Brett was the owner of All-Star Graphite Rods when the company was based here in Texas. Early on, All-Star earned acclaim for quality and function, building custom rods on Gary Loomis' blanks. A critical growth step was taken when Brett's desire to take the brand further culminated in the development of in-house rod blank construction. Brett brought in Don Mook to assist and jointly they created All-Star's successful rod blank tapers, actions and rod styles. All-Star really hit the big time, capturing freshwater and saltwater limelight, with start-to-finish production of premium custom fishing rods in their northwest Houston factory.

Now wind the clock forward. In 2004 All-Star was acquired by the group that eventually formed tackle conglomerate - Pure Fishing. Brett sat on the sidelines for a while but love of the fishing tackle industry lured him back to create Tour Star Products.

Launching a new rod company in today's competitive tackle industry is no mean feat. However, armed with a vast knowledge of fishing rod manufacture and an entrepreneur at heart, Brett was hardly your average beginner. Being an angler that understands rod manufacture from top to bottom and also how tackle is used in the real world sealed the deal. Brett is also proud to offer products made in USA Booyah!

Tour Star's Intimidator Inshore saltwater lineup currently includes 36 flavors in lengths of 6'-6", 6'9" and 7' available in medium-light to medium action, casting and spinning style. Also available are reel handles that provide ability to telescope rod length from 6'-6" to 7' for more specialized application using just one rod. All are equipped with Tour Star's premium non-slip grips, a boon to wade fishermen especially.

The Tour Star Rod Grip is a story in itself, an idea that stretches back about ten years, born of cork handle warranty claims.

Developed originally for the golfing industry, Winn Incorporated developed successive generations of "tacky to the feel" grips that are very easy to replace and not only feature a fantastic gripping surface, but also cushion the shock of club to ball contact and those inescapable dips into turf.

As designed for golf clubs, the WinnLite V-17 grip uses a rubber core but rubber was too heavy to compliment a super-light rod blank, so Brett introduced the idea of an EVA foam core. EVA is widely used by itself as rod handle material but lacks in UV resistance; however, Brett says it makes a wonderful cushiony core for a rod handle when molded with an outer layer of Winn's V-17. The marriage is a revolution in rod grip design and a notable tackle innovation. Tacky to the feel when wet, even coated with fish slime, all while cushioning the shock of casting strokes that create arm, hand and wrist fatigue during a long day of plugging!

Tour Star Grips are also available separately in varying lengths to fit most existing rod styles and brands, and replacement/installation is actually easier than you'd think with a Dremel Tool, slip-joint pliers, knife and proper adhesives.

Back to the rods, true made-to-spec customs, standard features include PAC Bay reel seats and stainless steel titanium-coated guides with no inner ring to fail during prolonged hard use. Traditional full length handles as well as the newer split-grip designs are also available. Check them out at your local tackle shop or on-line at



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/2022 10:13PM by Kent Griffith.

Another cool side story to all of this Houston factory legacy is that it all tracks back to Morgan McCain founder of All Star rods. Take a read on what he is credited for on numerous websites:

"Morgan McCain, the founder of All Star Graphite Rods and originator of technique specific actions, has a passion for building fishing rods of only the highest quality..."

And

"McCain Hi-Performance Graphite Rods are designed from the inside out to offer serious fishermen serious fishing rods. McCain Hi-Performance was created by Morgan McCain, a fishing rod technology and industry expert. Morgan is the founder of All Star Graphite Rods and the originator of technique specific actions. He has been working for several years to develop and apply new technologies to fishing rods, and the MHP line-up is the result of this work."

Morgan McCain, the founder of All Star rods is generally credited industry wide for: "originator of technique specific actions."

Let that sink in. Morgan McCain. All Star rods.

And who was making and supplying those technique specific rods Morgan McCain is credited for as being the originator of technique specific actions?

Gary Loomis and Don Mook and 2 additional men partnered with them.

This is rod blank history right here. If they asked this question on jeopardy who among us would have gotten this answer correct?

So we have at core Loomis and Mook making LCI rods and supply Morgan McCain and his All Star rods.

The market downturns for McCain and he sells out to Brett Crawford who strolls into All Star rods and calls up Don Mook and says hey man I don't want to be a customer any more and rebrand your LCI rods. I want to make my own. Will you come down to Houston and build me a factory?

And the rest is history as they say. From that factory in Houston a whole plethora of rod companies has sprung from it including Kistler here in this thread came right out of CastAway that came right out of the same Houston factory as All Star. It all runs together. Clearly Castaway is using same materials as All Star did, even use the same colors too. Almost like they are the same rods with different brands on them is all.

Any way I just wanted to point out something we take for granted today is credited to Morgan McCain and made by Loomis and Mook at the time. Then came the Houston factory and rod history was forever changed.


One of my all time favorite rods I call my crystal rod was made at that Houston factory early on soon after Don Mook built it and he and Brett Crawford worked on those first All Star custom made rods... So far in nearly 2 decades of searching for more of them, I have only found 2 in my lifetime so far. So for me here in Florida they are pretty rare and extremely scarce. I have never been able to find a second one of my favorite rod. I gave up looking years ago. I guess I am meant to only have that one good one and the second is shorter and had some tip broken off so it'll never match the one intact original that I have.

But one thing I never considered before until reading the words of Trey Kistler about his father working for CastAway inside that Houston factory... I never considered my crystal rod could have been hand made by Trey Kistler's father and Don Mook and Brett Crawford. Its value just went up in my book. What a legacy. All in one rod.

But folks the real story here is what the @#$%& was Don Mook thinking when he opened up the Houston factory? I mean with LCI he is making one type of rod which now it seems like Gary was in full control over designing more so than Don Mook because if what came out of Houston is what Don Mook was all about, then it is NOT evident in any LCI rods blanks made at the same time.

So what the heck was Don Mook doing in Houston? How did he take such a drastic turn away from what he was doing with LCI at same time and then going off into a totally different direction all together in Houston with All Star. I sure wish someone could get inside of one or both of these two men's heads and pull it out of them before its too late.

The LCI rods of the time were thick diameter and the rods coming out of Houston could have slipped up inside of LCI rod blanks like the mandrel and still have plenty room to spare. They were super thin blanks tip to butt. True pencil rods. This style today is more in line with fly fishing rods and ultra lights. Yet All Star was producing MH pencil rods with unusual sensitivity in part due to the extreme hardness of the binder used and how tightly compact the rods were rolled was incredible for time period.

And its kind of funny that rod blanks kind of moved towards thin walled blanks for awhile but I heard they broke too easily and were damaged too easily and so thicker walled rods are more durable and companies don't have to warranty replace as many. So the trend now has been towards more tightly rolled thinner rods with thicker walls. Even MudHole has moved in this direction.

But folks, no one, not even Loomis has made a rod to my knowledge with as high pitch resonant sound as what All Star made in those first years out of Houston. One of a kind. Most rods have a thud sound. This rod rings and it sings when braid slides through the guides. Like the rod has a voice of its own. I never experienced anything like it with any other rod which is what compelled me to try and find this Houston history info over the years. I am told by rod designers its in the binder. That secret is in the binder. But what is it? Only 2 living men may know and maybe those who worked for them and carried it out of the Houston factory and into other factories. What is this binder secret they used in Houston that makes rods sing for lack of a better word to describe how it can vibrate and affect sound.

All I can say is Don Mook and All Star and Brett Crawford were some 40 years way ahead of their time, and it seems like rod companies today are still playing catch up to some degree refining their rods towards a benchmark set by All Star. But it has been cool to watch and follow what was started at Houston flow into other brands and flow into other factories from this same legacy. Just found out we can add BreakAway rods to the legacy list...

How many factories did Don Mook have a hand in building and in designing and creating unique fishing rods? I doubt we will ever know. It would be great if some investigative journalist would dig into this one and produce a book about it.

And Lance, being able to drive up to that factory back in the day and get that kind of customer service must have been awesome! You could have met some of these men back then. You were in the right place at the right time and lucky indeed.

Trey Kistler is carrying on his father's legacy which is honorable and Trey Kistler is also carrying on the legacy started by Loomis, Mook, McCain, and Crawford too. Kistler came from them. And this is why all of these are at the top of my list.

--------------------------------------ADDED

I want to add one last final thought on this legacy of rods...

I honestly doubt if all of us members here on this forum truly grasp or realize the magnitude of impact the men mentioned in this thread have all had upon the constantly evolving, constantly improving fishing rods. I truly believe today in 2022 many of us, if not most of us take it all for granted these days. And we don't even know what all these men had to go through to do it too, and for some like Gary Loomis, are still doing it to this day on the front line and cutting edge of rod technology.

Before ICAST 2022, I thought I had done a pretty good job of tracking the Gary Loomis rod history step by step. And prior to meeting Gary Loomis at ICAST 2022, when I stood before my lifetime rod collection now averaging just under 100 rods still maybe a few less as I am selling some, but before when I stood before my collection of rods I thought I knew which rods were Mook and which were Loomis. But after talking to Gary Loomis in person he made it clear to me NO ONE will ever know the extent of his rod making history or for who all and for how many he made rods for.

Gary Loomis told me he made rods for Bass Pro and Browning and others I had never heard of him making before until I heard it right out of his mouth.

I returned back home after that meeting and stood looking at my rods realizing now I had no clue how many of the rods in there were really made by Gary Loomis. Who could know? Its not possible any longer. Now I could have double or triple the rods in there made by Loomis and Mook legacy. Now I have to give up on trying to track these men's careers and where all it went and for who all they made rods for because that end goal to know is now out of reach forever. We will never know. The two, or I should say the single two most important names in rod blank history and their legacies will remain shrouded in mystery forever. People will be holding and using their rods and never know it. And this is a shame.

Part of the problem I have in trying to track Don Mook's career is that man did not seek publicity like rod brands needed to do. He stayed behind the scenes and hard to track.

But in trying to track him, all I can say is the world should have been paying attention when something changed between LCI and All Star.

When Don Mook answered that call to build that factory for Brett Crawford in Houston, Texas something changed in rod making. Something I wish more people had been paying attention to. Something different went down at the start up that new Houston factory. How does a rod maker involved in making specific type of rods for LCI breakaway and begin making totally different revolutionary rods ahead of their time at All Star? What was going on here? Think about Don Mook going to build a rod blank factory for a direct competitor and then producing revolutionary advanced rods for that other competitor to his own LCI corporation he was making different rods for needing to make a profit there too, yet so willingly helping many competitors?

Take that Houston factory... All Star rods made in there. And later CastAway. Trey Kistler says his father worked in there and came from there. A direct legacy lineage for sure and this is one way it moved out of that Houston factory. But the other way was through Don Mook.

Once he broke away from LCI and made this blank design change that showed up coming out of the new Houston factory, it was like a pandora's box had been opened. Not just one jack in the box sprang out but an endless pile of jack in the boxes popped out and all over the place too. Don Mook went to Oklahoma and opened up at least possibly two factories there. Those rods carry his design legacy and also of collecting value to me. I'm a huge fan of Oklahoma made Shikari and Falcon rods- only U.S. made Falcons. Most are now made in China and I would not touch them. But those original Falcons are worthy rods. I love my buccoo's. Great thin wall rods. Crisp. Clean. Tight. Powerful. Light. And sensitive. Low density thin wall rods right there with excellent characteristics for bass fishing. I've seen these snap when overloaded. But when used within their reasonable range they can be great rods. Modern Falcons made in China more resemble the old All Stars. Thinner and seemingly harder and the ones I tried were whippier in the tip.

Don Mook also went to the northwest and was involved with Lamiglas and Batson family and Loomis also had involvement up there. And I am not as familiar with all of his efforts up there because there is so little available to find on him. Loomis is more well known and gets most of the credit and Don Mook falls into the cracks and disappears from history really. Yet I can see his influence in more than a dozen brands over the years and possibly more.

I went from thinking and believing I knew my rods until I met Gary Loomis and then I found out I don't know squat about what all he made and never will. Same for Don Mook. Kistler however is pretty cut and dry. I get why Trey had to outsource, but it hurts to hear him have to get defensive for his actions and for his family and business. I don't think Trey should have to defend himself really. Just keep making great rods and ignore the noise! I'm glad the son stepped up to carry dad's legacy on. How many would do it these days? Can't even get most kids today off the couch and their noses out of the ipads and video games. And we should all be glad Trey and Gary Loomis got together which can only mean more rods and more improvements at the time still visible on kistler website. The legacy lives on. It seems like the rest of the world today are doing little more than copying these guys. Their impact has been enormous and largely hidden- even Gary Loomis. And I'm telling you all something of a seismic shift happened between LCI and All Star. A quiet tidal wave that changed the world and no one noticed. Well Kevin Shaw who made Stiffy rods noticed as did a few others...

When Brett Crawford opened up that Don Mook factory in Houston, a nuke went off and its still going off to this day. Fishing rods have changed forever I do believe and that's a wrap for me on this thread.

In my opinion Kistler deserves every bit to be up there with Loomis and Mook. The Kistler family earned it and still do to this day. Trey is a true Southern gentleman.

Who knew Gary Loomis made Bass Pro rods? I never heard that one until Gary said it. Same with Browning. A Gary Loomis Browning rod? A new one on me. Google does not know all. lol

And Lance here got to drive up to these guys and toot his horn and holler hey fellas I need a new rod! Hurry up will ya, the fish are biting! Some guys have all the luck. I could not imagine standing before 10,000 identical crystal rods which in All Star rods terms was their Emerald Edition series. I found only one whole rod in my lifetime but it has been enough to experience that seismic shift. Hard to grasp the distance between LCI and All Star coming from the same man. This tends to tell me LCI rods were more Gary Loomis designs and All Star and beyond is when Don Mook's efforts came out. They just hit upon something different back then and the world is slow to catch up is all. Kind of funny to watch rod blank companies today tout the same characteristics All Star hit on 40 years ago. Yeah that nuke is still going off. And Gary is to my knowledge the only one of them still active in rod making to this day. All others have retired. Morgan McCain retired when McCain rods went out of business. Brett Crawford is out of the rod business now but I am sure still patriarch to his family's investment empire which he spent some to buy All Star with and start up Tour Star rods with as well. And Don Mook is long gone off into the sunset and virtually unknown. One rod blank designer told me to my face one fine day by chance meeting that Gary Loomis was the best at PR in the business! PR. Yeah. OK. As in are you saying he did not make great rods? Hmmmmm... says the guy who's rods are made in China. And I'll leave it there.

The rod series that changed rod blank making...





And an earlier Morgan McCain All Star rod made by Gary Loomis and Don Mook's LCI company





Edited 18 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2022 12:36AM by Kent Griffith.

I feel you on the desire to know where you stuff is coming from - and I don't just mean geographically but everything else that comes along with it. I respect your respect for those that paved the way and your attention to detail. I appreciate the time you spent gathering and sharing this information.

Only makes me wonder more now where Kistler gets their blanks from.

KENT what blanks do you build on?

From where does Kistler blanks come from? The South. Which is where my main focus for this thread has targeted. The Southern angle to an incredible rod making legacy born in USA. There is an Oklahoma angle to it, and a northwest angle to it and quite possibly beyond. My main target zone is Loomis, Mook, and that Houston factory and its derivative rod blank legacy is why I am chiming in on this thread. My passion for rod blanks starts right here. And I have yet to even get into Dick Kantner and Kevin Shaw. Two more almost unknown heroes of the rod blank making history of this country.

From the Kistler website...

"BUILT BY HAND IN TEXAS

Born in a Texas garage, every Kistler rod is built by hand in Magnolia, TX."

And there is NOT a town in Texas called China! Ha!

Kistler is made in the South! All Star, CastAway, Stiffy, and many others from Southern manufacturing is of greatest interest to me. The Oklahoma and northwest angle to it all is kind of secondary to the Southern angle for me anyway.

And this rolls right into answering that last question... today I am retired. And I have not built a rod for myself in over a year. I have reached a point and age where I no longer need to fill a void in the tackle arsenal. Got more than I use now.

But when I was building them I did two ways basically... 1) I did not ignore the aftermarket rods. A lot of what I did for so many years was in tearing down those rods and rebuilding them. I still source parts from off of older rods and keep some around just for the reel seats mostly and few other parts. So I stripped rods and rebuilt them how I wanted them, and a lot of baitcast rods were all turned into spiral wraps. But for 2) when I personally went to source rods for myself I did not run to get the latest and greatest. What I would do is take the above legacy and list of names of the men who did it and go after their rods. I go after, or went after Loomis and Mook and Crawford and McCain and Shaw and Kantner and Scott and Kistler and others. Falcons. Shikari. The list goes on just from the above legacy I choose to zero in on and hunt down.

I had the great fortune to work in an old rod and reel repair shop some years ago and the former owner an old Navy grouch built his own rods and so when I came into the shop he had retired- thankfully! and left behind his old rod blank collection which contained numerous examples of the above men's life's work efforts. So for years and years I would tap into that still hidden treasure trove of old rod blanks.

Right now in 2022 I can still walk to that collection of rod blanks going back well over 40 years of collecting them in the shop. There are decades old St. Croix blanks like new. How about some now deceased Richard Kantner Graphite USA blanks that have not been available for decades. Yet sitting in an old shop is some original Graphite USA blanks. How about some Batson family blanks? RainShadows are in there. And lots of others.

So while many guys are going to buy the latest and greatest I'm digging around in decades old dusty old piles of rod blanks untouched for all those years. I can pull out original new Loomis. Lamiglas. RainShadow. St. Croix. Graphite USA. So when I am going to spend on a blank my head turns two ways new and old. And invariably I choose to go dig around for old gold no one else can lay their hands on and while I can I shall! New is great and fine and dandy, but I guess I am a vintage guy and prefer vintage rods like digging through these old beauties... and keep in mind the selection of brands in this old man's collection was his own. It just so happens that most if not all of his choices for sourcing blanks comes directly from the men in this thread. And the old grouch was from up north living in Florida building his mostly northwestern USA angle blank collection seen here.

How cool is it to still be able to walk into an old shop and buy a Richard Kantner original duel helix rod blank in new condition? Here is a quote from this website:

[www.rodbuilding.org]

"Dick’s knowledge of graphite and specially of duel helix rod blank construction has been lost to time I’m afraid – I’m sure his original designs were passed along with the equipment, but the deep understanding was not. RIP old friend."

The technology for duel helix rod blank construction has been lost? Its in my rod collection. I have several original mint condition duel helix blanks and here on the shelf are more. Why can't these rods be deconstructed and examined and replicated? Why does duel helix have to be considered as lost to time?

Anyway when I want to build a "new" rod for myself I would dig in here today rather than buy the latest and greatest. I know these rods...









The rest of the quote from this website on Dick Kantner just so its all together back into context of the original comment:

"Re: Dick Kantner
Posted by: Tom McNamara (---.res.bhn.net)
Date: July 06, 2015 10:27PM

Very sorry to hear this. I’ve worked with Dick at Graphite USA developing some blanks in the 1990’s. In looking for his obituary online, I came across a YouTube video of him telling about his work for the CIA in the 1960’s. I did not realize how far back his graphite engineering went. Dick played a major role in early “stealth technology” in the 1960’s by developing radar absorbing leading edge of the wings and turbine spike for the A-12 and SR-71 as well as stealth paint [www.youtube.com]

Years later he applied his knowledge to the sporting goods industry with his company Composite Development Corporation which lead to rod blanks and Graphite USA company with their duel helical designs. Those original GUSA blanks made by Dick and his sons’ were very powerful and he built nice fly rods for Powell, however I would say his business acronym was not as good as his engineering knowledge. So he sold GUSA to Roy Hasting, Roy moved it to AZ and renamed it to United Composite’s to avoid paying Dick royalties on the GUSA name. Roy got into legal trouble and the business was mothballed then sold out of receivership to Gary in Australia who moved in back to CA – but the equipment was very neglected and all the moving took its toll. Gary ran it for a while, then sold it to Randy Penny (formally with Seeker) who is running it today as United Composites. Such is the life of a blank company!

Dick’s knowledge of graphite and specially of duel helix rod blank construction has been lost to time I’m afraid – I’m sure his original designs were passed along with the equipment, but the deep understanding was not. RIP old friend."



Seeker rods is yet another extension of this same legacy. Just tracking the men in this thread can fulfill one fisherman's entire lifetime with an endless variety of superior rods. Gary Loomis as we all know is hard at work still creating the best on the planet and I think we need to now add another name to this legacy and that is Aleks Maslov is now in there with the greats of this legacy. I for one would like to thank Aleks for what he is doing for this legacy, the Loomis legacy. And not just that, I mean Aleks is like Gary own son. Aleks take care of the old guy and looks after him. I saw this firsthand at ICAST as Aleks was very attentive to Gary even when in conversations around the booth in groups of people Aleks would keep an eye on Gary all the way across the booth. And this is how it should be and I am glad it is.

For me and yesterday's vintage rods it was Loomis and Mook. And today in 2022 it is Loomis and Maslov. On it goes and we should all be glad it is so!

One thing I would like to ask or suggest to Aleks is that Gary is getting older now and not as mobile from what I saw and I'd like to see some in depth full disclosure documentaries on Gary Loomis and maybe a biography book and chapters on his former business partners like Don Mook. And we have a custom rod building hall of fame, but what about a rod blank creators hall of fame? That would be a select group while rod builders can go all over the place to include people who never made a blank in their life. Oh well, I don't mean to put any pressure on Aleks or anything, but I'd sure hope one day someone will put the time and effort into an in depth look at Gary Loomis and the rod blank creating legacy he has been a part of for so long. Gary Loomis is an American icon and in my opinion we need to pay attention to these people while they are alive and not wait to pay tributes after they are gone. Now is the time as I see it. And no one deserves it more than Gary Loomis.

And its kind of funny reading about the Dick Kantner CIA connection that reminds me of Gary Loomis patents I read through some years ago. If you think fishing rods is all Gary Loomis made you'd be wrong. Gary was quick to realize what he was doing had possibilities in other applications. For one Gary tried getting involved in golf clubs at one point, but the funniest one is his fishing rod to antennas and back to fishing rods story. A graphite fishing rod is a conductor after all and so to us fishermen Gary Loomis made top quality fishing rods, but he could turn around and use that same fishing rod to sell to the military as some radio antenna mounted on the rear bumper like a surf rod sticking up. Fishing rod or antenna. Same product basically though antennas were a little larger than fishing rods. Which one makes the most money? We see Gary is back to making only rods now, Guess those dreams of large government contracts evaporated once antennas of that type were no longer needed like the buggy whip. Nice try though.



Edited 8 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2022 12:31PM by Kent Griffith.

That's aweome! I'd imagine standing in front of those blanks would be a little like being at a museum, I'd be a little afraid to touch... but I'd probably cross that red rope haha. Given the history of the hands that took part in building those blanks its like your time traveling and taking part in that history when you build on'em, must feel something spectacular with a finished rod off one of those.

Sometimes history is lost to those gatekeepers who never pass the key onto the next generation, so thank you for sharing and for what you bring to this site and the community.

Cool read Kent. Thx for sharing

Thank you very much for kind words Kent.

Best,
Aleks

Dual Helix blank construction isn't lost or forgotten , CTS ran with it years ago and still utilizes this method.

Dick Kantners GUSA, ia now United Composites owned by Randy Penny the ex prduction manager of Seeker.

Before this forum account is closed down permanently I need to add in here that Bob Batson also worked at the Houston rod blank factory created by Don Mook.

I received a really nice email from someone who wanted to let me know that Batson Enterprises and RainShadow and their legacy also came right out of the Houston blank factory.

I did not mean to exclude any part of that legacy, and I would encourage people to research what happened in Houston and publish it. Rod blank making history not only changed in Houston, it has set the stage for where we are today with rod blank construction.




Last post for Bob Batson.

Where is Al Jackson in all of this? He probably did more rod design and innovation than anyone else. Still working I would guess.

I think I saw he was at North Fork Composites

Mike