There was so much good information in my last post that I had one more question on a different technique. NFC doesn't really have a dedicated hard jerkbait (like 110's) rod like MHX with the MB812XF and MB813XF and for top water I like the MHX MB843. From the NFC rods what do you see as a good blank that could do both techniques well? Blanks that come to mind for me are the MB705 (IM), the SJ705 (IM), and maybe the MB705 Delta or MB693 Delta (this one interests me, don't ask why :) ) .The SJ705 is rated lower but shows much more power on Rodhouse. Thanks for any suggestions!

Patrick, another good topic! Keep them coming!

A couple quick questions: ONE rod to fish BOTH 110's and topwater? What kinds of topwater? (Ploppers, spooks, frogs, poppers?)

Casting or spinning set up?

In your post, you mentioned , "From the NFC rods..." and I don't want to lose sight of your specific parameters. However, I might chase a rabbit or two here:

IME, NFC blanks have a bit softer/gradual taper in the front part of their models, even the 'XF' ones. I really need to get my calipers to work and do some measuring. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this. The way you fish a lure may be better suited to this kind of flex profile. Caught fish all look the same in the photo, right?! I prefer what I think of as a 'dedicated, extra fast tip' - which I believe is due to a combination of taper and materials in that front 12-18 inches. That is the place where I like to see a definite initial bend in the rod tip - where it looks like you have your rod laid on a table with the last foot to 18 inches hanging over the edge, and only the tip flexes when a minimal load is applied. Think of sticking your index finger out straight and only flexing the last joint. That's what I like in an XF action. The tip does the fine work, and the power/taper kicks in really fast so I don't have to move a lot of line to start moving the hooks. (Oddly enough, the APFG series of NFC blanks fits this parameter quite well....hmmmm). Anyway, When doing CCS tests, the AA is measured when the blank is loaded to 1/3 its length....and that is different from what I am describing here: when the tip flexes to the AA with less than a 1/3 load.

All that said, jerkbaits and topwaters can be two different animals in my mind. The 110's have very small and light hooks. Working the jerkbait, I want that XF tip to snap the bait, and then stop it dead still. And on the bite, not too much stiffness/power that might rip tiny hooks out. That is why I like a medium light blank for the 110's range (maybe a medium power for Pointer 100's, Jackall Rerange, and the beefier bodied 100mm baits): the tip can be snappy, but the power can go bendy when loaded up. For the slim and quick 110's, his makes me think of the NFC SJ703: IP = 343; AA = 73 (Another classic model that is versatile)

I bought the NFC DS6100 and gave it a try because of its specs. IP = 275; AA = 78. Great rod, but not the fast tip I wanted. (This rod turned out to be an excellent spring crappie jig pitching rod, though, as I like the backbone that shows up when wrestling a bigger crappie in cover. We also run into a fair number of carp, drum, and catfish when fishing the 'nubs and stubs' for spring crappie; nothing like feeling that "TAP" and setting into a 3 to 5 pound channel cat!) This rod is rated a Medium, but you'll only find the Medium power fairly deep in the blank, IMO.

Last time out, I used the NFC Delta HS760 working a 110+1 Jr. on a windy reservoir dam and it worked well. The length was a tad long a 7'6", but the casts were, too. This rod is a spin rig. KR Concept set up with #15 braid and about 10 ft. of fluoro leader, FG knot.

MY Rabbits:

St. Croix rods have this down pat in their extra fast versions. (If I were guessing, before measuring actual rod diameters, it is because they use a softer material at the tip, and a beefier taper out closer to the tip. Just spit-ballin here)
The St. Croix I like are the SC69MLXF; the SC68MXF; or the SCV610MXF All excellent rods that fish a multitude of baits well. And don't forget you can extend any blank to add a bit more AA and IP. (As a rule, I don't shorten blanks, though some do to their satisfaction.)

There are also lots of fans in the Point Blank camp, too: PB691MLXF (IP = 380; AA = 77) and PB691MXF (IP = 440; AA = 76) You can thank Norm Miller for this data!

SO....if it is me, and I HAVE to choose ONE rod for BOTH (not knowing your topwater baits), I'd go with the St. Croix SCV610MXF.

I have an Xray SJ703 cut down to 6ft 8in on my workbench that I am going to build with the intent of it being a jerkbait rod. My current jerkbait rod is the Falcon Cara weightless worm rod which is rated as a MH rod but has the diameter of a typical ML. It's a really unique rod rating and I feel the SJ703 is pretty similar from what I can tell. Jeff Kreit and Mike McClelland actually use this rod as their jerkbait rod if that says anything. I do not feel that it is well suited as a topwater rod unless you're only throwing small poppers.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2022 03:20PM by Jacob Clark.

Jacob,

What kind of j-baits do you throw? Where is your fishery?

Leslie Cline Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Patrick, another good topic! Keep them coming!
>
> A couple quick questions: ONE rod to fish BOTH
> 110's and topwater? What kinds of topwater?
> (Ploppers, spooks, frogs, poppers?)
>
> Casting or spinning set up?
>
> In your post, you mentioned , "From the NFC
> rods..." and I don't want to lose sight of your
> specific parameters. However, I might chase a
> rabbit or two here:
>
> IME, NFC blanks have a bit softer/gradual taper in
> the front part of their models, even the 'XF'
> ones. I really need to get my calipers to work and
> do some measuring. There is absolutely nothing
> wrong with this. The way you fish a lure may be
> better suited to this kind of flex profile. Caught
> fish all look the same in the photo, right?! I
> prefer what I think of as a 'dedicated, extra fast
> tip' - which I believe is due to a combination of
> taper and materials in that front 12-18 inches.
> That is the place where I like to see a definite
> initial bend in the rod tip - where it looks like
> you have your rod laid on a table with the last
> foot to 18 inches hanging over the edge, and only
> the tip flexes when a minimal load is applied.
> Think of sticking your index finger out straight
> and only flexing the last joint. That's what I
> like in an XF action. The tip does the fine work,
> and the power/taper kicks in really fast so I
> don't have to move a lot of line to start moving
> the hooks. (Oddly enough, the APFG series of NFC
> blanks fits this parameter quite well....hmmmm).
> Anyway, When doing CCS tests, the AA is measured
> when the blank is loaded to 1/3 its length....and
> that is different from what I am describing here:
> when the tip flexes to the AA with less than a 1/3
> load.
>
> All that said, jerkbaits and topwaters can be two
> different animals in my mind. The 110's have very
> small and light hooks. Working the jerkbait, I
> want that XF tip to snap the bait, and then stop
> it dead still. And on the bite, not too much
> stiffness/power that might rip tiny hooks out.
> That is why I like a medium light blank for the
> 110's range (maybe a medium power for Pointer
> 100's, Jackall Rerange, and the beefier bodied
> 100mm baits): the tip can be snappy, but the power
> can go bendy when loaded up. For the slim and
> quick 110's, his makes me think of the NFC SJ703:
> IP = 343; AA = 73 (Another classic model that is
> versatile)
>
> I bought the NFC DS6100 and gave it a try because
> of its specs. IP = 275; AA = 78. Great rod, but
> not the fast tip I wanted. (This rod turned out
> to be an excellent spring crappie jig pitching
> rod, though, as I like the backbone that shows up
> when wrestling a bigger crappie in cover. We also
> run into a fair number of carp, drum, and catfish
> when fishing the 'nubs and stubs' for spring
> crappie; nothing like feeling that "TAP" and
> setting into a 3 to 5 pound channel cat!) This rod
> is rated a Medium, but you'll only find the Medium
> power fairly deep in the blank, IMO.
>
> Last time out, I used the NFC Delta HS760 working
> a 110+1 Jr. on a windy reservoir dam and it worked
> well. The length was a tad long a 7'6", but the
> casts were, too. This rod is a spin rig. KR
> Concept set up with #15 braid and about 10 ft. of
> fluoro leader, FG knot.
>
> MY Rabbits:
>
> St. Croix rods have this down pat in their extra
> fast versions. (If I were guessing, before
> measuring actual rod diameters, it is because they
> use a softer material at the tip, and a beefier
> taper out closer to the tip. Just spit-ballin
> here)
> The St. Croix I like are the SC69MLXF; the
> SC68MXF; or the SCV610MXF All excellent rods that
> fish a multitude of baits well. And don't forget
> you can extend any blank to add a bit more AA and
> IP. (As a rule, I don't shorten blanks, though
> some do to their satisfaction.)
>
> There are also lots of fans in the Point Blank
> camp, too: PB691MLXF (IP = 380; AA = 77) and
> PB691MXF (IP = 440; AA = 76) You can thank Norm
> Miller for this data!
>
> SO....if it is me, and I HAVE to choose ONE rod
> for BOTH (not knowing your topwater baits), I'd go
> with the St. Croix SCV610MXF.

Thanks for sharing, where can we find more of that Norm Miller data?

The MB 705 is not what I would call a specific jerkbait or topwater rod, but it will do it well along with other things within its lure range. I once saw a tournament with tv show anglers where they could have one rod and the lures they could throw in a little Plano 3600 size box. A rod like this is what I would pick for that, it does a lot of things well. I bet their new MB 725 Xray C6O2 is the same way.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2022 02:34PM by Spencer Phipps.

I agree with you, Spencer!

The gist of your post would make another great topic: The All-Rounder (as the Brits would say).

El Bolinger -

Where's Norm Miller?

He is as close a topic or post to him. Awesome person!

Hang around this board and you will meet him sooner or later...you will be the better fisherman and rod-builder for it.

Same goes for an entire posse of guys that hang around here. Stay tuned.

Leslie Cline Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jacob,
>
> What kind of j-baits do you throw? Where is your
> fishery?


99% of the time I am throwing Vision 110s or The Spro Mcstick. I am fishing for largemouth in Central and Southern Iowa with a few trips for smallies up north.

Great information, sorry I need to be more clear, yeah I meant a casting rod for walking baits, spook style baits. 1/2 oz jerkbait and similar topwater. Fishing mostly smallmouth around rocks and sand on the upper Mississippi river. Leslie I appreciate your in depth analysis. A glass rod that has a tip that could work a jerkbait would be crazy/life changing, maybe you're on to something! Sj703 xray is an interesting though Jacob, thanks! Jacob, yeah my issue is most the time I'm chasing smallies we're in a small jet so each rod I choose needs to do multiple things well. I have a lot of rods that cover lake/grass river largemouth well. River smallies is a different game.... maybe a new thread to start?

Patrick,

You hit it on the head with your experience of different types of water (river vs lake); needing different types of baits and the rods to present them in the most delicious ways!

You fishing the big Katana jerkbaits (1/2oz.+)??? Magnum weightless flukes? If so, keep that under your hat, will you?! Ha! (Funny how extra big or extra small baits key the bite depending on the conditions.) I catch a lot of normal-size fish on bigger baits, and big ol' suckers on small baits.

My buddy has a smaller boat (Big man) so I am always limiting myself to the smallest number of rods and tackle to save space. I should say "trying" to limit myself! I am always on the lookout for those versatile rods I can multi-purpose.. (when I only had about three rods and reels to fish with years ago.....I thought nothing of fishing for whatever was biting with what I had.)

The NFC SJ 736 X-Ray is one of those great rods that can fit multiple roles from top water to sub-surface. Spencer is right, too, the 705 Delta is one of those great all-rounders. I'd add the NFC APFG series, particularly the 745. Yeah, I get it, a glass rod versus a carbon one....but the 745 is a true all-rounder for jigs, tubes, tops, cranks......just put it to the test....you'll see.

Here are CCS data on some of the blanks mentioned.
NFC MB705 IM - IP = 566 g; AA = 71
NFC SJ705 IM - IP = 724 g; AA = 71
NFC SJ703 X-ray - IP = 343 g; AA = 73
NFC SB724 X-ray - IP = 463 g; AA = 74.5
MHX MB843 - IP = 699 g; AA = 74
PB691MLXF - IP = 512 g; AA = 77
PB691MXF - IP = 603 g; AA = 76. Note: This Point Blank Data is different from that given by Leslie

The NFC SJ705 is more powerful than the NFC MB705. If you want something similar to your MHX MB843 the SJ705 would be closer. The NFC SJ703 is the least powerful blank out of the bunch, and if it’s cut back it will become even less powerful. The NFC SB724 has a power between MB705 and the SJ703, which is what you might expect.
I really like both the PB691MLXF and MF blanks for jerk baits and top water. I find both of them to make into very versatile rods.
Hope this helps.
Norm

I build mostly baitcaster rods and my go to blank that will do Top waters like a 4.5" Top Dog or a Zara Spook and the 3.5" jerk baits (Yo Zuri Crystal 3D) is a NFC P703-1 (Lambda LMX) cut down to 6’8.75” (with butt nets 6’9”). The tip is soft enough to easily get the side to side action you are looking for. I use 10# mono that will stretch, so if you use braid, you may want something a little slower. I have built the same rod for guys that use braid and have heard no complaints.

Great info Norm, from research i felt the SJ705 would be similar to the MB843 but could never confirm. I'd like to try PB blanks just can very pull the trigger. Currently I'm just using a spinning rod for jerkbaits, the MHX NEPS-MXF works well for so many applications but was seeing what else was out there. I'll probably try the SJ705 for topwater/all purpose river blank. Norm do you have a database with all of those ratings (sorry new to the site) would be nice to have everyone add information, just really helpful information when looking between blank brands and lines.

Here is a data base started by Gib Portwood a number if years ago. It contains CCS data previously published by the manufacturers. It has not been kept up to date.
[onedrive.live.com]

PS - The NEPS78MXF has an IP of about 590 g and an AA OF about 76. Very nice blank.
Norm

Thank you Norm, that's great. I really like the MHX NEPS line, have the NEPS78MLF, 2- NEPS78MF, 2-NEPS81MXF and a NEPS86HF. Super light with a little softer tips than other MHX blanks.

Thanks for the catch of my misprint on the PB691MXF, Norm!

Thanks for that on the P703. I have wondered how the tips were and if they were a decent blank.

Lance - On the P703 or you going HM or IM, or doesn't really matter, Interested in that, seems very light in both models. I prefer mono on topwater too.

Norman Miller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here are CCS data on some of the blanks mentioned.
>
> NFC MB705 IM - IP = 566 g; AA = 71
> NFC SJ705 IM - IP = 724 g; AA = 71
> NFC SJ703 X-ray - IP = 343 g; AA = 73
> NFC SB724 X-ray - IP = 463 g; AA = 74.5
> MHX MB843 - IP = 699 g; AA = 74
> PB691MLXF - IP = 512 g; AA = 77
> PB691MXF - IP = 603 g; AA = 76. Note: This Point
> Blank Data is different from that given by Leslie
>
> The NFC SJ705 is more powerful than the NFC MB705.
> If you want something similar to your MHX MB843
> the SJ705 would be closer. The NFC SJ703 is the
> least powerful blank out of the bunch, and if
> it’s cut back it will become even less powerful.
> The NFC SB724 has a power between MB705 and the
> SJ703, which is what you might expect.
> I really like both the PB691MLXF and MF blanks for
> jerk baits and top water. I find both of them to
> make into very versatile rods.
> Hope this helps.
> Norm

Based on these measurements, it confuses me that the SJ705 has a lower lure rating than the MB705. That's a pretty significant jump in power.