I
nternet gathering place for custom rod builders
  • Custom Rod Builders - This message board is provided for your use by the sponsors listed on the left side of the page. Feel free to post any question, answers or topics related in any way to custom building. When purchasing products please remember those who sponsor this board.

  • Manufacturers and Vendors - Only board sponsors are permitted and encouraged to promote and advertise products on the board. You may become a sponsor for a nominal fee. It is the sponsor fees that pay for this message board.

  • Rules - Rod building is a decent and rewarding craft. Those who participate in it are assumed to be civilized individuals who are kind and considerate in their dealings with others. Please respond to others in the same fashion in which you would like to be responded to. Registration IS NOW required in order to post. You must include your actual First and Last name and a correct email address when registering or posting. Posts which are inflammatory, insulting, or that fail to include a proper name and email address will be removed and the persons responsible will be barred from further participation.

    Registration is now required in order to post. You must include your actual First and Last name and a correct email address when registering or posting.
SPONSORS

2023 EXPO
CCS Database
Custom Rod Symbol
American Tackle
Anglers Rsrc - Fuji
BackCreek Custom Rods
BatsonRainshadowALPS
CRB
HNL Rod Blanks–CTS
Custom Fly Grips LLC
Decal Connection
Flex Coat Co.
Get Bit Outdoors
HFF Custom Rods
HYDRA
My Rod Shop
Mudhole Custom Tackle
MHX Rod Blanks
North Fork Composites
REC Components
RodBuilders Warehouse
RodHouse France
RodMaker Magazine
RodMaker Blog
Schneiders Rod Shop
SeaGuide Corp.
Stryker Rods & Blanks
The Rod Room
Trondak U-40
Utmost Enterprises
VooDoo Rods

Pages: Previous12
Current Page: 2 of 2
Re: Ending / Tying-off a Wrap Without a Pull-through Loop
Posted by: Ray Morrison (---.res6.spectrum.com)
Date: November 15, 2022 01:03PM

Mark, the videos you might be looking for are Bob Taylor Hand Wrapping 1, 2 and 3 on vimeo.

There's a couple of previous topics on here with links to the videos and discussion. In those threads people mention that what Bob is doing looks similar to the Rizzuto knot.

The Rizzuto looks like similar to the back serving knot.

The two previous posts are:

Finish a wrap without a thread loop?
and
Tying-off a Thread Wrap WITHOUT a Pull-Through Loop.

They both pop up with a search on here using the term Rizzuto.

Hope that's what you were looking for.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Ending / Tying-off a Wrap Without a Pull-through Loop
Posted by: Ross Pearson (---.dlth.qwest.net)
Date: November 15, 2022 03:55PM

[www.youtube.com]
Looks like a snelling or whip finishing technique to me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2022 04:12PM by Ross Pearson.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Ending / Tying-off a Wrap Without a Pull-through Loop
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: November 15, 2022 03:58PM

Ray - Yes, the BobTaylor Hand Wrapping videos are the ones I remember, and most probably the ones Mark is referring to. The back serving knot and the Rezzuto finish knot are exactly the same thing, just different names. It is the finish knot that Bob Taylor is using. It does exactly the same thing as using a tie off loop for ending a rod wrap. I think using a tie off loop would be faster and easier. In any case these finish knots don’t eliminate the tag bulge. Burnish the best you can and don’t let it bother you.
Norm

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Ending / Tying-off a Wrap Without a Pull-through Loop
Posted by: Lynn Behler (---.44.66.72.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
Date: November 15, 2022 07:30PM

Mark, 1st time I was ever referred to as a "respected" rodbuilder! Lol, Thx

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Ending / Tying-off a Wrap Without a Pull-through Loop
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---)
Date: November 15, 2022 08:41PM

Thanks to Ray Morrison for being the first to locate the video that I was looking for. Thanks also to Ross Pearson for saving me the trouble of posting a link. Apparently, the demonstrator’s name is Bob Taylor; he certainly has a knack for dazzling onlookers! Also which may be apparent, is that most who are involved with rod building are not involved with building archery equipment; Bob’s technique for tying-off a thread wrap is also used for “serving?” a bowstring. Nonetheless, it is a very interesting and viable technique which can also be applied to ending a thread wrap.
As for the applicability for rod building, it MAY require more time than the popular, time-tested pull-through loop (which is also used in lieu of the BSK in archery). Bob Taylor is so comfortable and experienced using a BSK when tying-off a wrap that only an effortless 5 - 10 seconds are required. Admittedly, I fumble a bit with the process. Also noticed is that Bob wraps TOTALLY BY HAND = no rod supports or thread tensioners of any kind. This leaves and allows the loose thread spool to be manipulated during his tie-off procedure whereas most of us have the thread spools secured in a tensioner of sorts and / or rod supports (AKA the Norman Miller wrapping approach?).
The funny thing is that I replied to one of those “Rizzuto” topics over 3.5 years ago on this site; it must have been where I was introduced to these looples tie-offs. This site is truly amazing!!!
Even though I doubt that many (anyone?) will throw away their pull-through loops in favor of the BSK method, it is nonetheless an interesting and educational deviation from the status quo. I hope everyone will at least view the video, if for nothing more than information’s sake. Hopefully, we all remain here to learn.
Furthermore, I got to pay Ray $50.00 for being the first to (re)locate the video as promised; no matter if it was considered a brain-storm or brain-flatulence. Ray, thanks again and contact me via my personal email.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Ending / Tying-off a Wrap Without a Pull-through Loop
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: November 15, 2022 09:46PM

Mark, if you tie the FG knot for connecting braid to a leader, you have probably seen and possibly used the Rizzuto knot to finish the FG knot. I use it all the time when tying the FG knot. The end result is the same as whip finishing a fly, which I do using my fingers rather than a tool.
Norm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2022 09:55PM by Norman Miller.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Ending / Tying-off a Wrap Without a Pull-through Loop
Posted by: Guy Taylor (38.128.89.---)
Date: November 16, 2022 12:50AM

When I teach Flemish bowstring making that's rhe way we end the center serving. I swear the students to secrecy to add a bit of humor to a somewat boring procedure.

Gry Taylor
Lucerne Valley, CA

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Ending / Tying-off a Wrap Without a Pull-through Loop
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.adr01.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: November 16, 2022 06:10AM

Looks to me like the Rizzuto knot is simply multiple passes of the tag end throgh an overhand knot loop. I use two overhand knots to finish my Alberto knots and have never had one unravel. The logic is that getting a tight wind knot out of braid is almost impossible, so having a tightly set overhand knot is too. The problem with the Rizzuto for braid is that it's so limp that it's hard for me to keep the loop open for multiple passes through it. Easier to just use two tightly set overhand knots.

I think if one uses the Forhan locking loops on single foot guides there is an opportunity to lock the thread without having a bulge, but I've yet to try it. Will do soon. If it works out it would be a lot quicker and simpler than the Rizzuto/serving knot.

I have never had a person look at one of my rods and ask "What is that bulge?"

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Ending / Tying-off a Wrap Without a Pull-through Loop
Posted by: Ray Morrison (---.res6.spectrum.com)
Date: November 16, 2022 02:12PM

Mark

You don't owe me anything.

I consider my finding the videos just a small repayment for all of your posts and everyone else's posts that have helped me, who builds limited rods as a hobby.

That's one of the great things about this site is all of the people willing to help each other.

Ray

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Ending / Tying-off a Wrap Without a Pull-through Loop
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---)
Date: November 16, 2022 03:41PM

Thanks for the replies.
Norman,
I use a FG knot for ALL my braid-to-leader connections; however I learned to use 2 half hitches to end the knot. Even though I have never had one of my FGs fail, I may experiment with the Rizzuto.
Guy,
You are one of the exceptions to my earlier statement “...most who are involved with rod building are not involved with building archery equipment”. I hope you took no offense.
Michael,
Nore have I had someone inquire or complain about "What is that bulge?" It is just unsightly to me; but it does draw attention to perfectly aligned starting and stopping points of multiple thread inlays.
Ray,
Your declining compensation is acknowledged and appreciated. Just remember that I owe you one! Thanks yet again.
While most of us (except Norman) might consider wrapping a rod by twisting it on our lap with one hand while cupping and feeding the spool of thread in the other to be awkward and difficult, I think it might actually benefit Bob Taylor’s loopless tie-off method. Additionally, he was working rather close to the end of the blank which made “reverse wrapping” those few rotations easier. Nonetheless, the BSK / Rizzuto / Bob Taylor method is quite interesting, intriguing, with a hint of magic. Now if there was just a way to conceal the tag end under the wrap, as with inserting an early pull-through loop…

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Ending / Tying-off a Wrap Without a Pull-through Loop
Posted by: Guy Taylor (38.128.89.---)
Date: November 17, 2022 12:01PM

Mark, no offence taken. I consider your statement mostly true. I had a small business making and selling custom wood arrows for traditional archers, longbows and recurves. In fact, before I got a cresting lathe to turn the arrow shaft while paint was applied, I used my rod wrapping jig to do relatively simple thread art using metallic thread instead of paint.

Guy Taylor
Lucerne Valley, CA

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Ending / Tying-off a Wrap Without a Pull-through Loop
Posted by: El Bolinger (50.233.0.---)
Date: November 17, 2022 12:50PM

Man that Bob Taylor vid was so fluid I literally ooed at how smooth and effective that was. I don't know if bulge makes that much of a difference, but that wrap was impressively low profile and looked solid. Even just his demeanor and craftsmanship demanded a certain appreciation and respect - it looked like breathing for him haha.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Ending / Tying-off a Wrap Without a Pull-through Loop
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---)
Date: November 17, 2022 03:52PM

Guy,
If you are ever in the eastern LA area (I 605 / I 10), feel free to stop by and say hi. There do not seem to be as many rod builders here in SoCal as other parts of the country. I would have private emailed you but your address is hidden.
El,
I certainly agree that Bob makes it look quite effortless; that is why I thought it might be a viable alternative to a pull-through loop. But as stated, although I can do it, it’s not as easy for me; I want to be just like Bob when I grow up!

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Options: ReplyQuote
Pages: Previous12
Current Page: 2 of 2


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
Webmaster