As the title implies, I am seeking to learn of a method / technique to eliminate, or at least reduce, the bulge in a thread wrap caused by the underlying tag end when starting or ending a wrap, or even when adding or dropping threads within a wrap. It is especially noticeable when multiple inlays are within a short distance of each other. While obviously a bit unsightly, I have just considered it to be “the nature of the beast” or a “necessary evil” = “like it or lump it”. Do any of you magic-makers have a solution / cure?
My attempts have proven fruitless = difficult to perform, possibly junking an otherwise perfect wrap = iffy at best.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Other than just flattening it out with a burnishing tool...I got nothing.

[www.youtube.com]

.............

Chris,
Thanks for the reply. Been there / done that; it helps but only marginally. I realize and admit that I may be splitting hairs here, but then, that seems to be the norm for us rod builders all too often lol.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Tom,
Thank you for replying as well. I have zero problems concealing the end of the tag because I insert my pull-through early, pull the tag until just secured under the main wrap, snip it off on the OUTSIDE of the main wrap, and then when the pull-through is pulled under the main wrap, the tag disappears underneath somewhere between the point of entry and exit; no second trimming of the tag required. I see absolutely no benefit to pulling the tag all the way through the main / base wrap only to HOPE it is cut close enough to not produce a nub sticking out.
My concern is with the bulge in the main wrap created by the underlying thread tag. It may very well be impossible to totally eliminate the bulge, but that is why I have asked = I am here to learn.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

I roll a flat blade of a spatular over it.
Herb

It can be somewhat reduced by "crushing" it with a burnishing tool, which is what I think Herb is doing. I also put them on the underside of the rod as much as possible.

Mark Talmo Wrote:
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> Chris,
> Thanks for the reply. Been there / done that; it
> helps but only marginally. I realize and admit
> that I may be splitting hairs here, but then, that
> seems to be the norm for us rod builders all too
> often lol.

If you really must hide it...
You could pull the tag through right at the base of the tunnel (on the side of the guide foot).
The problem with that is that it's not very secure (at that moment) ...but you could temporarily secure it with a drop of UV resin and hit it with a UV torch.
Once you add finish it will be solid.

As Michael said.
I also make sure that any of the pull throughs are on the side this is not visible when holding the rod. If one can't see it, it isn't there to cause a problem.

Best wishes

As Michael said.
I also make sure that any of the pull throughs are on the side this is not visible when holding the rod. If one can't see it, it isn't there to cause a problem.

Best wishes

Since you have the tag end just barely secured under the main warp , would it be possible to fray the tag tip after it's cut and then pull it through so the bulge might be a little flatter . This is honestly more a question than a suggestion .

Ronald, I think that would make the bulge disappear or just about disappear. The risk, I think , is that it might fuzz the thread leaving another potential problem. The thread that is pulled through might not be "clean."

I don't believe putting the tag under the guide foot is a good idea; it really risks coming loose based on my experience screwing up the pull through now and then. The wrap between the end and the guide foot will still have thread under it and may show.

The ultimate 100% solution is to have no thread under the wrap, but I don't know how to make that work. But it seems like I've read about a process before. ??

To me, it is a non-problem. It's only visible when the rod is in the hand, and not even then unless you turn the rod over .

Mark,
I have thought of this myself and my solution is to do what Ronald Atchley suggests. I tie in a loop a few wraps before the end. I hold the tag end of the wrap tight and pull the loop tight against the wrap to hold the tag end in place. I then cut the tag end shorter than the amount of wraps, like you suggested to eliminate a bump. I then fray the tag end of the wrap before I pull it through. I found it works pretty well.

Mark, you want to make two layers look like one. Your tucking method is the one I use, and like many of the others I try and have the tuck on the less visible area of the rod.

Use black thread? :)

Thank you for the additional replies.
Herb,
That helps and is basically what I have been doing. But still…
Michael,
I certainly line-up all my “lock-overs” in the most inconspicuous location around the rod; out-of-sight = out-of-mind. But still…
Chris,
While it would certainly not create a bulge in the main wrap, I agree with your mention of the tag not being very secure if pulled under at the side of the guide foot. I don’t even trust pulling a tag on top of a guide foot. And then there is not always a guide foot present when wrapping multiple inlays close together.
Roger,
As mentioned to Michael, out-of-sight may be the best feasible remedy. But still…
Ronald,
Your suggestion / question was what I initially thought would be the best resolve. I experimented with different frayed lengths and pulling the loop at different angles, but with minimal success. I determined that the pull-through loop “re-compressed” the frayed tag. This is why I included “difficult to perform” and “iffy” in my original post.
Michael-2,
You are certainly correct that no thread under = no bump or bulge. A few years ago, I saw a short video of a rod builder demonstrating to a dozen onlookers how to tie-off a wrap WITHOUT a pull-through loop!!! Everyone in attendance gasped with amazement. I watched that video upteen gillion times but couldn’t figure it out let alone duplicate it. I can’t find it now. Nonetheless, I would think that there STILL must have been a thread tucked under somewhere. If someone knows of that video, PLEASE provide a link!!!
Ed,
You are either a better man than me or not quite as picky lol.
Phil,
It may be the best defense. But still…
Michael W.,
Color makes little difference.
I sincerely hope that my replies are NOT taken as derogatory or unappreciated; CERTAINLY THE OPPOSITE! Everyone is thinking, which is a good thing! When there is only a bulge at the start and end of a wrap, they are much less noticeable than when there are 10 or 12 close together from adding and dropping threads of multiple inlays. Granted, a heavy coat of finish disguises them to some degree, but that is not an option for my UL builds with minimal thread finish.
There may not be a total solution. Some may consider visible starting and stopping points which are perfectly aligned and consistent to be an indication of quality thread work. But still…

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Greg,
Thanks! The “back serving knot” that you mentioned MAY just be the method used in the video I am referring to. [www.youtube.com] It also involves ”doubling the tag back over itself” and “possibly reversing the rotation direction (?)” that I mentioned my fossilized brain vaguely remembering; and all without a pull-through loop.
Phil,
While the back serving knot that Greg mentioned does include a “double layer” as you stated, I can’t imagine how to lock the tag without doing so, at least without glue or heat. It was a previous topic that I started “Eliminating the Bulge Created by a Pulled-Through Tag” which dealt with minimizing the bulge. An offshoot from that discussion prompted this topic of loopless tie-offs.
In the end when all is said and done, Greg’s offering of the “back serving knot” may be a viable alternative to the employment of a pull-through loop. Although it may have been intended for archery applications, it very well could also be applied to tying-off a thread wrap. The only thing I don’t like about it is that the tag end comes out 3 or 4 (or as many as desired) rotations in from the edge of the wrap, which needs to be trimmed-off. To eliminate any possible thread nubs when tying-off a wrap, I prefer to insert my pull-through loop quite early so that the pre-cut tag is buried under the main wrap. Those of you who prefer to pull their tag all the way though the main wrap before trimming it will feel right-at-home and be second-nature.
I am very curious to learn what the rest of you think of employing this LOOPLESS TIE-OFF method!!! Excuse me, but I need to go out to experiment and practice.

This guy Q is a master:

[www.youtube.com]

Can anyone imagine doing the serving knot of every wrap on every rod? I cannot.