As the title suggests, how do you align the guides on your rod builds? There must be pros and cons to either / both methods to be considered while developing a personal preference.
Personally, I position the guides of my builds in the straightest, line-of-sight alignment because when sighting down the rod (as virtually everyone does, including customers), the guides are in perfect alignment with each other (at least as perfect as I can get them). It is more of a aesthetic thing than functional; slightly misaligned guides have virtually no impact on the line passing through the guides as my earlier test and consequent post revealed [www.rodbuilding.org]
Through the years, many methods and devices have been developed to align guides but I think it is safe to say that the human eye still remains the final checkpoint. I fabricated my own rod lathe which consists of an 1in X 3in extruded T-slot aluminum base which is about as straight as one can get, and the uprights and unique “guide alignment fixtures” were all machined on a DRO milling machine which affords all the guides being aligned to one another well within .005in along the length of the blank. The only issue is that no blank is perfectly straight and hence, my guides follow any deviations in the blank; perfect for someone preferring their guides to follow any curvature in the blank. In the end, I still check guide alignment by line-of-sight.
While building on the straightest axis is just that, the STRAIGHTEST axis, and certainly helps, it is nonetheless no guarantee that it is actually straight. And there are those who prefer to build on the spine and who can really argue with them; it’s their choice.
The last issue of RodMaker magazine contained an article “EASY(ier) Guide Alignment” with suggestions on how to perform such. The last sentence read “If you build on the spine and the rod tends to crook to one side or the other, it will help you to fasten the rod in your supports to take out as much crook as possible while aligning the guides”. This suggests that the guides should follow / mimic any curvature of the blank rather than a straight line-of-sight path.
All of this may be splitting hairs but then that could be considered a prerequisite in this trade. I am curious how the rest of you approach aligning your guides and what the pros and cons might be. As always, I am here to learn.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Straightest axis. I don't like looking down a rod towards the tip and seeing a curve left or right.

If you align the guides to any crook in the blank so that they are "line of sight" it would impossible to have them all on the same axis.

............

Apparently I need to clarify. No matter if the blank has a curvature / crook or not, I position the guides so that the RINGS are aligned straight, line-of-sight and let the FEET fall where they might. If the blank is so curved that this cannot be achieved, I simply do not build on that blank. The straight alignment of the rings is much more noticeable / detectable than the feet. Again, I do this simply for the aesthetics. But then, the article suggests aligning the guides to follow any curvature / crook of the blank.
I am seeking the pros and cons of both and which approach builders prefer.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Whatever you choose, it will not affect performance. Do what you feel comfortable with. I personally don't like to look down a rod and see anything that looks "funny." So I'll do whatever it takes to not catch my attention.

No, the article stated just the opposite. Adjust the rod so that it is straight in the rod holders - no crook. Now when you take it out of the holders any crook will return - all the guides will be on the same axis however. But there is so little friction between the line and guide rings that it makes little difference. Friction requires to components and one of them is pressure, which you don't have between the line and the rings... at least not to any appreciable degree.

.............

Michael, thanks for your input; apparently you and I align the guide (rings) in the same fashion; the guide RINGS form a straight, line-of-sight path.
Tom, maybe you need to afford a little clarification as well. “Adjust the rod so that it is straight in the rod holders - no crook. Now when you take it out of the holders any crook will return - all the guides will be on the same axis however.” If a blank with a crook in it is “straighten” within the rod holders, then the guides are aligned (which would be both line-of-sight AND to the blank) and mounted (wrapped) to the “straightened” blank, when the blank is released from the forces holding it straight and returns to its initial crooked state, the guide rings will also be crooked = not in a straight line-of-sight path. That is exactly what I originally requested = whether to align the guide rings in a straight line-of-sight path or a path which followed any “crook” of the blank. The article did not state the opposite to my point but rather instigated my request for knowledge.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Mr. Kirkman,
I totally understand the idea of making the blank straight and then placing the guides so that they are in line.
However, as has been stated previously, when the blank is taking out of the fixture, the top of the guides will not be in a straight line and as Mark notes; is objectionable for any one sighting down the rod.

In addition, when a rod is used for casting, the blank does not get straight when casting. Rather, it stays in its relaxed or crooked state. As a result, the sides of the guides will not be in a straight line, and as was suggested, will have a small amount of negligible friction.

But, as Mark suggests, for myself and I expect many other rod builders and customers who routinely sight down the rod on a new build or a new rod purchase, I believe that it is more objectionable to the folks sighting down the rod and seeing guides seemingly out of position, even though they are in perfect alignment on a straight rod.

So, for myself, no matter the nature of the rod blank, I will build on the straightest axis and will let the rod remain in its normal relaxed crooked state and align the guides so that when sighting down the rod, the guides themselves are in line, in spite of being on a crooked blank.

Best wishes

If you build on the spine and therefore have a crook to one side, the only way to have "line of sight" guide placement is to put the guides each on a slight different axis. If you put the guides on the same axis, but using the rod supports to straighten the blank while placement is being done, yes, when you remove the rod from the supports the crook will return, the guides will all be on the same axis but there won't be an exact "line of sight" path through the guides. In either case, you'd be hard pressed to note any difference in casting distance because there is very little pressure forcing the line against the guide rings and therefore very little friction difference between the two.

.............

I never worry about the spine.
I just make sure that the guides all run straight down the blank, build the rod and go fishing.
All of the rods cast great and catch lots and lots of fish.

I have no idea what you guys are talking about. I build on the straightest axis and align the guides visually so they are in a straight line from reel seat to tip top. Pretty simple and it works. I have never had anyone say my guide alignment was off. Seems like you are trying to make guide alignment more difficult than it should be.
Norm

Mark Talmo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ..
> The last issue of RodMaker magazine contained an
> article “EASY(ier) Guide Alignment” with
> suggestions on how to perform such. The last
> sentence read “If you build on the spine and the
> rod tends to crook to one side or the other, it
> will help you to fasten the rod in your supports
> to take out as much crook as possible while
> aligning the guides”.

^^This is exactly how I do it.

> This suggests that the
> guides should follow / mimic any curvature of the
> blank rather than a straight line-of-sight path.

Yes...this is typically the exception instead of the norm.
Take the circumference of a blank and mark eight equidistant points around the blank (every 45 degrees).
Now consider the spine and the opposing bend of the sine (2 points)...you end up with a 25% chance that a bend (if there even is one) will be on the spine (or opposed).

...and its like you said (and proved), "slightly misaligned guides have virtually no impact on the line passing through the guides".

Norman Miller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have no idea what you guys are talking about. I
> build on the straightest axis and align the guides
> visually so they are in a straight line from reel
> seat to tip top. Pretty simple and it works. I
> have never had anyone say my guide alignment was
> off. Seems like you are trying to make guide
> alignment more difficult than it should be.
> Norm


Any natural curvature will generally be off to one side of the spine. So if your guides are on or opposite the spine, the guides will naturally be along that curve. The article wasn't about where to put the guides or the best axis to put them on - it was simply a means of making guide alignment easier, no matter where you choose to put them.

.....

...........

Thank you to those replying.
Norman, I am sorry that my original, simple request has gravitated to being difficult to understand, but apparently there are those who did not read my actual question and have gone off on different tangents without answering the simple question. I really do not know how I could have stated my question more simply. My original question had / has nothing to do with how to actually, physically perform guide alignment; we all have our own preferred method. The original question was what the pros and cons are to aligning the guide RINGS in a perfectly straight, line-of-sight path versus aligning the guides to follow any curvature of the blank!!!
As stated, I prefer the RINGS to be in a straight, line-of-sight path while sighting down the completed rod, and apparently, so does Kerry, Michael, Roger and Norman. The RM article, that initiated my curiosity, suggests the RINGS follow any curvature (crook) in the blank which is apparently how Chris does it. Although Tom has replied to this post more than anyone else, we still do not know which he prefers. Being a Form Follows Function advocate yet aligning my guides aesthetically (Form), I am curious as to any benefits of aligning guides to follow the curvature of the blank (possibly more Functional). I am still here to learn.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

If you are building on the spine, and are aligning the guides to a "line of sight" path, they will each be on a different axis. There is simply no other way to do it. A curve is not "line of sight" and therefore to achieve such a thing on a crook or curve requires the guides to be on different axis. When the rod is then loaded with a fish, the guides will no longer be "line of sight."

If you build on the straightest axis, the guides can all be on the same axis and will be "line of sight."

None of this was the point of the article.

..........

Mark, it really doesn't matter what Tom prefers. All that counts is what you prefer, or what your clients, if you sell, prefer. The performance of the rod will not change regardless of what you do. Do what you prefer and go fishing.

For the guys who build on the spine, you still need to put your guides all along he same axis. Forget line of sight. Having guides on different axii all along the rod to obtain line of sight when the rod is unloaded can cause problems when it is loaded. If you put them all on the same axis then the instant the line is loaded the guides will pull the rod straight. I cannot imagine how far off line you have to move guides on a spined rod to get a line of sight picture. Even a slight crookedness is going to require some guides be off the 0 degree axis by 5 degrees or more.

While I certainly appreciate any and all replies, Mike is the first to address my original question heads-on = thanks. I had not considered the effect guide rings aligned straight, line-of-sight might impose on a crooked blank under load. This is exactly the information I have been seeking. I am uncertain how much it would actually affect the blank but, nonetheless, it makes sense. Definitely fuel for thought. So Mike, am I correct that you align your guides to the axis of the blank (curved as it might be) rather than a visual, straight- line axis and if there is a crook in the blank, the guides will have a duplicate crook as well?
Although we may be fortunate to live in this modern day and age of technical advancements where blanks are usually pretty dang straight to begin with, nonetheless we have all had to deal with the crooked ones. I’ve seen and had to build on modern-day examples which were more crooked than my vintage Conolons.
Hopefully, more builders will reply with their experience, insight, wisdom and just plain ol’ opinions. It makes no difference which side of the fence one is on; I am (and hopefully all are) here to learn.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

I ignore the spine nonsense and build on the straightest axis so there is no crook or curve to deal with.

Mike Ballard Wrote:
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> I ignore the spine nonsense and build on the
> straightest axis so there is no crook or curve to
> deal with.

If there was a crook to begin with...wouldn't there still be one even if you build it on the straightest axis?
It would curve up (or down).

Say I have a rod who's guides were on the spine, and it was bent to one side.
The rod would certainly orient to the spine on cast and with fish on.

Just playing the devils advocate...I really dont think it matters (much).