My experience parallels Norman's. I don't pay the premium for all my braided line setups, but what I want the best, I go with Hitena. Their lines, while pricey, are in my opinion, as good as it gets. Another that I found above the norm was the American Tackle Bushido braid. It never seemed to catch on, but was very good. I just looked on line and it appears to stil be available.

I also like the Bushido braid, very nice. It’s hard to find in my area and doesn’t come in a seeable color, so I don’t use it very often, but very nice. I also picked up a spool of this at the Expo a few years back.
Norm

I know this is a rod building site and we are all conditioned to think rods are the principle source of sensitivity for the fisherman and that the line transmits the vibrations to the rod which transfers them to us but my point is the line transmits the vibrations to us and very little to the rod because the line is not attached to the rod...It,s attached to the reel which is attached so to speak to our hand..Cast a chatter baits and retrieve it then point the rod directly at the bait so that the line runs directly from the bait to your reel.. So that the rod is not deflecting the line at all..you can still feel the chatter baits and the vibrations are stronger..The line is sending vibrations to your reel like it always does but we are brainwashed into thinking the vibrations we sense come from the rod..that,s why when I switched to a glass rod but used braided line I sensed the same amount of vibrration..The rod is not the source of sensitivity the line is and it ends at the reel and handle..Remember the string attached to the tin can, that,s what we have here, only the reel is one of the tin cans..



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2022 05:25AM by ben belote.

"The rod is not the source of sensitivity the line is and it ends at the reel and handle.."

Just have to comment. If this were true then a line would feel the same, have the same ability to feel a bite, with all rods. Glass, hybrid, graphite, premium graphite. That is clearly not the case.

M8chael, that,s what shocked me when I first used braid on a glass rod,.I could still feel a spinnerbait spin, a small chatterbait chatter, the wiggle of a crankbait, etc..and would have maybe feel more if the glass tip were a bit stiffer,.It,s the stiffness that allows the line to carry more vibration to the reel..A broom handle would work..actually the stiffer materials allow the line to carry more vibration to the reel where your hand is.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2022 12:16PM by ben belote.

The only thing I disagree with is that the rod has nothing to do with sensitivity. I know I don't feel bites very well on my old Ugli Stick. But I do on my Point Blank. Both with braid. We will just have respectfully disagree on this one.

the ugli stick is a perfect example of how a rod stiffles line vibration..The very soft tip acts like a shock absorber, smoothing out the vibes in the line, not much getting to the reel..next time using the ugli stick lower the rod tip to reduce the rod tips influence on the line and you will feel what isn,t getting to the reel because of a soft tip..What,s ironic here is that my most favorite spinnerbait rod is an ultralight ugli
stick and I can feel the blade with no problem..go figure..it is a very short rod though.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2022 08:14AM by ben belote.

If you admit that some rods stifle line sensitivity more than others, then the converse is that some rods stifle it less than others, so are more sensitive. And it follows that rods have something to do with sensitivity. It's not all about the line.

There is a zero percent chance of this "sensitivity / line / rod" conflict resulting in a conclusion or providing credible information until scientific equipment and measurements are used to test hypotheses of rod sensitivity. Posts comprised of pure speculation - AKA "guesses" - are no help, except to keep the squabble going.

Since we don't have a sensitivometer we rely on opinions, logic, and "educated guesses" a lot. We all do, including yourself. This is not a squabble; it is a discussion. I am finding it interesting.

But if you want some sensitivity related numbers, check some of your rods for TNF. I expect you will come up with some surprises.

Michael, and sensitivity is not all about rods either..the line plays a part too..That,s all I,m trying to point out

Everything plays a part. Line, rod, guides, reel, and fisherman.
Norm

Norman, maybe you can tell me why two people standing a few feet apart both fishing small chatterbaits with one using a graphite rod and mono the other using a glass rod and braided line,j why can t the one using graphite feel the chatterbaits until it,s half way in but the one with the glass rod feels the chatter from the first crank..I thought the line might have something to do with it,..?What do think Norman?

ben belote Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Norman, maybe you can tell me why two people
> standing a few feet apart both fishing small
> chatterbaits with one using a graphite rod and
> mono the other using a glass rod and braided
> line,j why can t the one using graphite feel the
> chatterbaits until it,s half way in but the one
> with the glass rod feels the chatter from the
> first crank..I thought the line might have
> something to do with it,..?What do think Norman?

Ben, your theory is easily tested. Get as many fishermen as you can and have each use your rod and line then switch. One should be able to form an opinion as long as none of them have nerve damage that would skew the test. If enough do it one should be able to see a pattern. even considering some have better feel than others.

Ben, please keep in mind that I am not arguing with the contention that braided line is a major factor in sensitivity. I have often stated that the biggest improvement in sesitivity will come by using braided line instead of other lines. BUT, I maintain that the rod is part of the sensitivity "equation." You are arguing that the rod has nothing to do with it; it's all in the line.

If you are not, please correct me.

"I thought the line might have
> something to do with it,..?" No one is arguing with this statement. "Something to do with it" Yes it's major. But it's not the whole thing.

No idea? All I know is what I’ve experienced. I did state that line plays role, as well as the rod, guides, reel, and fisherman. I have no problems with you being extremely happy using fiberglass rods, microguides, braided line, and a spinning reel. It works for you. I personally just don’t like the weight, feel and sloppiness of most fiberglass rods. I’ve stated before that I believe all rods are sufficiently sensitive. I grew up using fiberglass rods and mono, and never had a problem feeling bites. In my opinion, I’m extremely thankful that carbon fiber rods, microguides, and braid came into existence.
Norm

Ben, put the same line on both rods, then judge which you can feel more.

Ben, the line doesn't have to be attached as in anchored to the rod in order for the line to transmit vibrations to the rod. It only has to be touching it. If it were as you described, then we would be feeling a bite through contact with the reel. And since the reel is anchored to the rod, any vibrations the reel passed on to the rod would travel in opposite directions from it's point of origin. Meaning the tip of the rod would be the last part of the rod to receive the vibrations and that just isn't happening.

There is no doubt that contact with the guides transmits information in the line, to the rod blank. The tip top, receiving the highest contact pressure, is going to be the guide that transmits the highest amount of that information, If it were about where the line is anchored, then the experiment I just preformed wouldn't have had the results it did.

The grip material that I think is the most non conducive to transmitting sensitivity, is EVA. I have several rods with EVA grips, so I tried something. I took one of the spinning rods I built that has a full length EVA grip on it, to use in my experiment. I made a short cast onto my concrete driveway, using a 1/16 oz Ned head jig with a 3" Ned worm on it.. I then took the reel off the rod and wrapped the line coming from the spool, around the butt of the rod so that the line was anchored on the EVA grip. Guess what I felt when I lifted the rod tip and dragged the jig across the concrete?

I felt the vibration of the bait as it went over the coarse texture of the concrete.

There is no doubt that line plays a huge role in what we can feel with our rods. No one is debating that. But to make it sound as if an Ugly Stik is going to allow the same degree of feel that a rod built on an RX 10 blank will, when both rods have the same line on them is .......... well ......... you know

If people can't or won't measure the difference in sensitivity between two rods and quantify this difference it's likely the reason for their silence is there is no difference.

Or they have gotten to a point where they ask themselves why am I wasting so much time on something nobody's ever going to agree on . Trying to substantiate something that cannot accurately be substantiated usually ends up in a thread that goes until the participants die of old age.