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line stretch
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.inf6.spectrum.com)
Date: August 02, 2022 10:06AM

An on-line site reports that premium monofilament line stretches from 10% to 30%. This would seriously degrade the sensitivity of the lightest, most exquisitely constructed graphite rod. A solid-glass rod loaded with gel-spun line would be many times more sensitive. It's important to view rod, reel, and line as parts of a whole, not separate elements.

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Re: line stretch
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---)
Date: August 02, 2022 10:53AM

It is important to note that as soon as the fish touches the line it doesn't stretch that distance though, that stretch is at full load just prior to the line failing. A light tap stretches the line very little if as all. Some of it is line mass and line bow in the water column.

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Re: line stretch
Posted by: ben belote (---.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
Date: August 02, 2022 11:07AM

I agree with Spencer and would like to add that line diameter is the main influencer for sensetivity not stretch..Braids are very thin while monos are much thicker and less sensetive

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Re: line stretch
Posted by: Mark Brassett (---)
Date: August 02, 2022 11:36AM

Phil Ewanicki Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>. It's important to view
> rod, reel, and line as parts of a whole, not
> separate elements.

..........and to apply those views to the species and conditions accordingly. Mono has its place.

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Re: line stretch
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.inf6.spectrum.com)
Date: August 02, 2022 05:00PM

Mark: Right you are! Bait fishers using circle hooks have no need for extra-sensitive lines. Plug casters, spoon casters, and dry fly casters have no need for extra-sensitive lines. Trollers have no need for extra-sensitive lines. That leaves who? Wet fly anglers who don't use strike indicators?

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Re: line stretch
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: August 02, 2022 05:13PM

If line diameter is the controlling factor in line sensitivity (I assume that means ability to feel bites?) then .006 in mono , about 6 pound test, will be as sensitive as .006 braid, 15-20 pound test.

I admit to having no data, but I don't believe that. (No one has data since sensitivity cannot be measured) .

Phil, non fly finesse fishermen need sensitivity in the total system. (Tubes, Ned, worms, many jigs, wacky, etc etc)

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Re: line stretch
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.inf6.spectrum.com)
Date: August 02, 2022 05:38PM

Sensitivity depends upon the type of line, the amount of line between the angler and the end of his line, water and wind currents, waves, the tactile sensitivity of the individual touching the line, even the diameter of the line: greater diameter = more drag = less sensitivity. "Rod sensitivity", if taken seriously, turns out to be a complex issue involving multiple variables. On a positive note, rod or blank advertisers don't have to define or quantify "rod sensitivity" - leaving them free to flim-flam the naive consumer.

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Re: line stretch
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: August 02, 2022 07:39PM

Anyone that wants to better understand "sensitivity" needs to get wet. Rig up a rod and reel with say, a plastic worm. Go to a swimming pool and have someone in the pool pull your line out to one end of the pool. You stand there with a blindfold on and begin your retrieve. Have the guy in the pool slap the worm rig as it passes by him. I guarantee that you will never feel it regardless of what type line you're using. However, the instant he grabs and stops it, even for a split second, you'll feel that regardless of what type line you're using.

The situation is different with vibrating lures such as crankbaits and spinnerbaits. Now you have something you can feel on the retrieve and any upset that causes a change in the cadence of the lure can be felt, and better with braid than with mono.

I've detected more strikes by watching line movement than by feeling anything. It all depends on what type fishing you're doing.

Before you can talk about sensitivity you have to define what it is.

................

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Re: line stretch
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: August 02, 2022 09:18PM

Before you can talk about sensitivity you have to define what it is

Sounds like you're defining it exactly as I did.

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Re: line stretch
Posted by: Richard Bowers (---.ptld.qwest.net)
Date: August 02, 2022 09:23PM

It seems the common thread in the prior comments is the lack of a defined benefit for superlines over mono. I respectfully disagree with these prior comments, speaking from experience!

I have for over 40 years been a light gear Trout fisherman, primarily fishing spoons. I tried 2lb test and was able to cast a country mile and got lots of strikes, but the feel was dead and I was unable to set the hook due to the line stretch! I bumped it up to 4lb test line, with very similar results. I was simply unable to hook the fish because of the stretch. I switched to Berkeley Fireline 4lb test line and the difference was dramatic! Not only did I cast much farther, I was able to hook the fish and thus catch many more fish. I lost a good many of them because I use barbless hooks, but I then began adding a 10' topshot of light fourocarbon and my catch ration went up dramatically as even the little stretch that short section of flourocarbon had, it was enough to keep the line tight to the fish when it went through its gyrations.

I also use a superline/topshot combo in my inshore bottomfishing with a dramatic improvement in hookups, as not only do I feel the fish more, the fish hook themselves more as they turn to make off with the lure. Using mono or all fourocarbon in 120' of water, I could only tell I had a fish when it loaded up the rod, even with one of my ultra-sensitive custom rods! The added benefit here is the superline of the same strength is so much thinner than the mono that the vagaries of current are much less dramatic with the superlines.

In short, I will ALWAYS use a superline with a topshot when fishing with anything but fly gear!

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Re: line stretch
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: August 02, 2022 09:45PM

Richard Bowers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It seems the common thread in the prior comments
> is the lack of a defined benefit for superlines
> over mono. I respectfully disagree with these
> prior comments, speaking from experience!
>
> I have for over 40 years been a light gear Trout
> fisherman, primarily fishing spoons. I tried 2lb
> test and was able to cast a country mile and got
> lots of strikes, but the feel was dead and I was
> unable to set the hook due to the line stretch! I
> bumped it up to 4lb test line, with very similar
> results. I was simply unable to hook the fish
> because of the stretch. I switched to Berkeley
> Fireline 4lb test line and the difference was
> dramatic! Not only did I cast much farther, I was
> able to hook the fish and thus catch many more
> fish. I lost a good many of them because I use
> barbless hooks, but I then began adding a 10'
> topshot of light fourocarbon and my catch ration
> went up dramatically as even the little stretch
> that short section of flourocarbon had, it was
> enough to keep the line tight to the fish when it
> went through its gyrations.
>
> I also use a superline/topshot combo in my inshore
> bottomfishing with a dramatic improvement in
> hookups, as not only do I feel the fish more, the
> fish hook themselves more as they turn to make off
> with the lure. Using mono or all fourocarbon in
> 120' of water, I could only tell I had a fish when
> it loaded up the rod, even with one of my
> ultra-sensitive custom rods! The added benefit
> here is the superline of the same strength is so
> much thinner than the mono that the vagaries of
> current are much less dramatic with the
> superlines.
>
> In short, I will ALWAYS use a superline with a
> topshot when fishing with anything but fly gear!


Richard,

You might also have achieved the same thing by using a longer rod, if possible. The additional amount of "sweep" or distance the rod tip would move on the hookset solves a great many of these type problems.

.........

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Re: line stretch
Posted by: John DeMartini (---.inf6.spectrum.com)
Date: August 02, 2022 10:13PM

Over the years it seems I have use just about every type of line (non fly) there is. None of them stood out as exceptional and I caught fish with all of them.

This is where the therapists get busy. I tend to use any line that is on sale or line I get as samples from sports shows, this year I got some at ICAST.

Now like anything else, whenever there is a change one has to make adjustments in order move on. When I try a new line it takes me a little time to get used to it and by some magic, karma, unconscious reaction or experience I manage to get the most out of the new line and catch fish.

Most of my strikes are from watching line movement. The other tell is an an unexpected interruption during a lure retrieve. I'm never in a position to analyze what's happening, I just react instinctively and become oblivious to everything except the fish at the end of the line. I don't notice line reaction, rod response, who is in the boat with me or where am on the planet. The thrill and excitement never gets old.

I enjoy the forum however some of the topics are too deep for me, but if I don't respond in some fashion I feel left out.

Have fun


,

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Re: line stretch
Posted by: Steve Chontos (---.delta.com)
Date: August 02, 2022 10:41PM

I have fished allot of plastic worms and finesse baits and sensitivity is important for feeling structure and working thru it too. Walk a jig or worm over a log or thru some rocks and slow it down expecting a strike. I feel a slight tap when a fish picks up the bait and sometimes nothing more til I set the hook. But there are times when I can feel the fish swimming away with the bait. I feel the super lines have made better fisherman out of more people.

Steve

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Re: line stretch
Posted by: Chris Catignani (---)
Date: August 02, 2022 10:58PM

Phil Ewanicki Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> An on-line site reports that premium monofilament
> line stretches from 10% to 30%.

Phil...what was that source?

Some numbers I've seen are 2% stretch at 50' and 2.5% stretch at 100'. #1
I think some of the larger numbers arn't using the drag...but locking down the reel.
The big take away is how the test is done.


#1 Fishing Line Stretch Test: Stretching the Truth

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Re: line stretch
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---)
Date: August 03, 2022 10:59AM

If all the benefits were on the side of braid like so many espouse I can't imagine how that 33# striper ever got caught on 2# mono mentioned in Mr. Schneider's recent post, that hook somehow ended up attached to that fish and the thousands of other large and small fish noodle rods have caught over the decades. Light line steelhead fishing was how Gary Loomis' life direction changed back in the 60's. Next time you see him, ask him what rod blank he spent the most time tweaking and perfecting?

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Re: line stretch
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.inf6.spectrum.com)
Date: August 03, 2022 07:26PM

Chris: Google "Fishing line stretch" The first sentence of the first paragraph on the first page makes this statement about "premium monofilaments".

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Re: line stretch
Posted by: Richard Bowers (---.ptld.qwest.net)
Date: August 03, 2022 10:11PM

Tom,

Since July of 1968, my Trout rods have all been fast-action graphite rods in the 7' to 8 1/2' range, all custom made by yours truly. My comparisons are all based on using the same rods with the different lines. My experiences with the monofilament and superlines are directly attributable to the difference in stretch, because all other factors were the same.

By the way, I read in a report in a fishing magazine back in the 90's that Trilene XL could have as much as 45% stretch, and it was one of the lines I used to use. I cannot verify that number, and cannot cite the magazine as at the time, I subscribed to several and did not save any of them.

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Re: line stretch
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: August 03, 2022 10:13PM

There is no "feel" on a slack line. What we most often refer to as "sensitivity" isn't really anything having to do with vibrations. What we feel is the stopping or pulling of something on the line. A crankbait vibrates, but it's really the movement of the lure as it resists movement through the water that we feel. A slack line will not "transmit" anything to the fisherman. What changes when the line is taut?

.................

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Re: line stretch
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: August 03, 2022 10:15PM

Richard Bowers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tom,
>
> Since July of 1968, my Trout rods have all been
> fast-action graphite rods in the 7' to 8 1/2'
> range, all custom made by yours truly. My
> comparisons are all based on using the same rods
> with the different lines. My experiences with the
> monofilament and superlines are directly
> attributable to the difference in stretch, because
> all other factors were the same.
>
> By the way, I read in a report in a fishing
> magazine back in the 90's that Trilene XL could
> have as much as 45% stretch, and it was one of the
> lines I used to use. I cannot verify that number,
> and cannot cite the magazine as at the time, I
> subscribed to several and did not save any of
> them.

I have used a lot of Trilene XL over the years. It might well stretch 45% as it reaches the breaking point. I don't really know but that seems excessive.

.............

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Re: line stretch
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.inf6.spectrum.com)
Date: August 04, 2022 07:55AM

The best way to evaluate fishing tackle is as a unit, taking into consideration: reel, rod, line, leader, and hook - since they are often interdependent and function as a unit. For example: If you are fishing a "J" hook your choice of line, leader, and rod are important for "hook-ups". If fishing with a "circle " hook - not so much.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/04/2022 07:59AM by Phil Ewanicki.

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