I
nternet gathering place for custom rod builders
  • Custom Rod Builders - This message board is provided for your use by the sponsors listed on the left side of the page. Feel free to post any question, answers or topics related in any way to custom building. When purchasing products please remember those who sponsor this board.

  • Manufacturers and Vendors - Only board sponsors are permitted and encouraged to promote and advertise products on the board. You may become a sponsor for a nominal fee. It is the sponsor fees that pay for this message board.

  • Rules - Rod building is a decent and rewarding craft. Those who participate in it are assumed to be civilized individuals who are kind and considerate in their dealings with others. Please respond to others in the same fashion in which you would like to be responded to. Registration IS NOW required in order to post. You must include your actual First and Last name and a correct email address when registering or posting. Posts which are inflammatory, insulting, or that fail to include a proper name and email address will be removed and the persons responsible will be barred from further participation.

    Registration is now required in order to post. You must include your actual First and Last name and a correct email address when registering or posting.
SPONSORS

2023 EXPO
EXPO ON FACEBOOK
CCS Database
Int. Custom Rod Symbol
Common Cents Info
American Tackle
Anglers Rsrc - Fuji
Back Creek Custom Rods
BatsonRainshadowALPS
CRB
HNL Rod Blanks–CTS
Custom Fly Grips LLC
Decal Connection
Flex Coat Co.
Get Bit Outdoors
HFF Custom Rods
HYDRA
Mickel's Custom Rods
My Rod Shop
Mudhole Custom Tackle
MHX Rod Blanks
North Fork Composites
REC Components
Rod Builders Warehouse
RodHouse France
RodMaker Magazine
RodMaker Blog
Schneiders Rod Shop
SeaGuide Corp.
Stryker Rods & Blanks
The Rod Room
Trondak U-40
Utmost Enterprises
VooDoo Rods

Pages: 12Next
Current Page: 1 of 2
CP or no?
Posted by: Danny Wood (---.46.234.77.ptr.avast.com)
Date: July 29, 2022 09:45PM

What is the feeling about using color preserver on wraps? I had heard it weakened them and would not let the epoxy penetrate.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: CP or no?
Posted by: Mike Ballard (---.nux.net)
Date: July 29, 2022 09:48PM

I won't use it. Take this as it comes but I build mostly saltwater rods and need all the wrap strength and durability I can get. So I do not even keep CP in my shop.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: CP or no?
Posted by: Steve Chontos (---.delta.com)
Date: July 29, 2022 09:50PM

I have used it a little, but as you mentioned I feel that it does not allow the epoxy to absorb into the thread. Now, does it have to absorb to be strong, IDK. But I feel that I get a stronger wrap without it. I'll take my chances with a slight color change.

Steve

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: CP or no?
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: July 29, 2022 10:04PM

The difference between wraps with CP and without CP is slight. We did some tests some years back but I forget the numbers. In short, CP does not create an inherently weak wrap. Going with just epoxy is stronger, but it's not a huge amount.

If you like the look that CP provides, use it without worry.

.......................

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: CP or no?
Posted by: ben belote (---.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
Date: July 29, 2022 10:43PM

Tom, I think it was in Vol.4 issue 2 that the test study you did on wraps with and without CP..It took 10# of weight to pull out the guides with CP and epoxy and 11# to pull out guides with just epoxy and no CP.. and the guide frames all were.bent at 7# before being pulled out..not much difference.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: CP or no?
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---)
Date: July 30, 2022 12:26AM

Danny,
It all boils-down to personal preference, sort of. I do not use it simply because thread epoxy is stronger than CP; why weaken the thread wrap? Yet, others use it to accomplish a special thread effect = it’s your choice. Using it simply to “fill the tunnels” along the slides of the guide feet is absurd = epoxy is MUCH better!!! Basically, there is NO benefit in using CP other than a cosmetics (effect) issue.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: CP or no?
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: July 30, 2022 07:28AM

The only way to get the original colors of the thread AND the sheen of regular thread is to use CP. Since the difference in strength is minor, AND the CP treated threads are strong enough, why not use it when you want the vibrant color and sheen?

Having said that , there are some neat colors that one can get by not using CP with regular thread. Do test wraps and put some alcohol on them to see the approximate color. Some dark reds look like ripe sweet cherries without CP.

On my fresh water and in-shore rods done with CP I have never seen any indication of insufficient strength.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: CP or no?
Posted by: Bruce Tomaselli (73.154.156.---)
Date: July 30, 2022 08:57AM

I've used it, not on all rods, but I haven't noticed a difference. I build freshwater fly rods.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: CP or no?
Posted by: John DeMartini (---.inf6.spectrum.com)
Date: July 30, 2022 09:05AM

IMO any strength differences are insignificant, it is the reaction of the threads with the epoxy that concerns me.

It depends on which thread color is used. A slight color change is acceptable if it is uniform, but when the wrap has spots, runs or blotches, that is unacceptable.

Black thread is the only color that has never given me any issues if I use CP or not..

There is no correct answer you have to rely on past experience or confidence in tribal knowledge whether to use CP or not.



Have fun

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: CP or no?
Posted by: ben belote (---.hsd1.va.comcast.net)
Date: July 30, 2022 09:13AM

Rather than soaking wraps in saturating epoxy ,I seal them with CP. And apply just one coat of epoxy..rods retain their crispiness especially fly rods

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: CP or no?
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: July 30, 2022 10:39AM

Same for me, Ben. I sometimes require a thin second coat of epoxy to fix a problem with the first thin coat.

I have used Flex Coat CP (two generous coats, blotted with a paper towel after about 30-45 seconds) for as long as I can remember with no percepible color shift when using regular Gudbrod, Pro Wrap, Fuji polyester, and a couple others occasionally.

I think if builders are having trouble with Flex Coat they are probably thinning it, not using it generously enough, or not letting it dry adequately before applying epoxy.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: CP or no?
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---)
Date: July 30, 2022 11:02AM

if I understand the test correctly you are trying to pull the single foot guide out from under the wrap in a direction it will never see while fishing, tip to butt. It takes about 25 pounds of weight to flex a Fuji single foot to bend, let alone fail at a 90 degreee pull like they see on a rod. a 7 ft bass rod that Rich Forhan tested with his spiral wrap under 5 lbs. of pressure had the first two tip guides under 0.1 lbs. of load and a maximum on the last guide of 1.0 lbs., well within any rod building tolerance needed here to get the job done on this example. An unlimited saltwater rod maker will need different info from a panfish rod maker on whether CP is an option for them I would think.
As Ben noted above CP is lighter than the same amount of epoxy some light rods may benefit from the difference, my 1 wt. Dan Craft has just enough Permagloss on it to seal and protect the thread.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: CP or no?
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: July 30, 2022 11:36AM

The test was simply to demonstrate that wraps coated with CP are not inherently weak and are only about 10% less strong on a direct pull than those wraps coated only with epoxy. In any event, both are more than strong enough to do what they have to do.

.......

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: CP or no?
Posted by: chris c nash (---.atmc.net)
Date: July 30, 2022 04:27PM

I never used it for my first couple builds because I used thread that didn't require CP it was already treated but after a while I decided to switch to nylon thread because I wanted to see what everybody was talking about in regards to achieving the best looking wraps with the more brilliant colorings which nylon offers and that required using CP. Colors were definitely more brilliant looking as most said they would be compared to the flat drab appearance of already treated thread .


On another note I decided to rewrap one of my first builds that I didn't use CP on and it was a lot more difficult due to the fact that the epoxy penetrates right down to the blank . When I decided to remove a guide to replace it on a build I used CP on I noticed a big difference . While the guide was super solid and extremely strong once you remove that top coat of epoxy what's underneath is pristine . No dried epoxy and scraping to deal with it's simply pop that top coat of dried epoxy off and unravel the thread wrap it will result in a super clean and smooth blank that doesn't even look like a guide was ever there .

Two reasons to use CP IMO , if you use nylon or polyester thread and want to maintain their colors as close to how they look on the spool as possible or if you ever plan to rewrap a rod and want the job of removing the old guides to be much much easier and quicker with as little remnants left over from the old guides as possible

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: CP or no?
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: July 30, 2022 07:17PM

What Chris said. Well stated.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: CP or no?
Posted by: Phil Erickson (---)
Date: July 30, 2022 07:29PM

The decision to use CP, has very little to do with strength. It has the biggest impact on retaining thread color. With CP you get almost the same color as the bare thread on the spool. Without CP, the thread becomes more translucent, darkening the thread color and in the case of light colored thread, allowing a dark blank to have an influence.

Most of us that do not use CP, prefer the more muted color, which can be very attractive in sunlight.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: CP or no?
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---)
Date: July 31, 2022 12:47AM

Form follows function!!! I do not use or prescribe the use of CP.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: CP or no?
Posted by: Chris Catignani (---)
Date: July 31, 2022 03:21PM

I have a love hate relationship with CP.
I agree that it does make a wrap stronger...but for me this is just a side-effect.

I like to use CP when I have a lot of thread art working. Specifically different colors in a weave or a cross wrap.
If you didn't use CP (unless you know for sure) you risk the colors going dark and possibly even matching.

I will not use CP when I have a rods that is: one color, using NCP thread, or has no tread art or its just black thread.
There are times when I will use CP as a trim band on a single color thread to give the appearance of two colors.
And you can use thread thats on the light/bright side and be happy with it when it goes darker.

Haveing said all this...I will say that main problem with CP is finding one I like.
Back in the day I love the Gudebrod #111...then for some reason they quit making it and changed it to #811.
I have just never been 100% satisfied with the #811, I have also never been completely satisfied with FlexCoat either.
Currently I'm using Carson's Crystal Clear CP and applying two coats liberally.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: CP or no?
Posted by: Danny Wood (---.46.234.77.ptr.avast.com)
Date: July 31, 2022 09:26PM

Thank you for all the replies. This gives me some things to think about.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: CP or no?
Posted by: Mark Hahn (---.176.90.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net)
Date: August 02, 2022 09:01PM

I use CP on wraps with nylon thread. I used it on my first rod I made 40 years ago and I still have it.

Options: ReplyQuote
Pages: 12Next
Current Page: 1 of 2


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
Webmaster