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Gluing the butt cap question.
Posted by: Ernie Blum (---)
Date: July 24, 2022 04:21PM

Sorry for this question, but I am about to begin gluing the handle assembly. The vinyl / rubber butt cap that fits the tenon is about 1/3 to 1/2 inch longer than the fitting. Once in place, there leaves that much air space between the very end of the tenon and the bottom of the butt cap. I would usually glue the grip to the blank and have the bottom of the blank flush with the end of the tenon. My question is this...should I do that and leave the air space down at the bottom? Should I butt the end of the blank to the bottom of the butt cap? If I do that, the blank will then extend beyond the bottom of the grip. Does it matter?

My thought is to make the blank and the bottom of the tenon flush, and perhaps fill the bottom of the butt cap with epoxy before I install it. I don't think leaving nothing but air between the end of the blank and the bottom of the butt cap is a good idea. How is this usually handled? No pun intended!

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Re: Gluing the butt cap question.
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: July 24, 2022 04:29PM

I'm not sure I fully understand , but if you close all the gaps that are visible and apply epoxy to all surfaces that meet, then it should work just fine.I've flush fitted butt caps with no tenon and used the rods for many years without a problem.

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Re: Gluing the butt cap question.
Posted by: Chris Catignani (---)
Date: July 24, 2022 04:39PM

Ernie Blum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My thought is to make the blank and the
> bottom of the tenon flush, and perhaps fill the
> bottom of the butt cap with epoxy before I install
> it.

^^ I would do this.

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Re: Gluing the butt cap question.
Posted by: Norman Miller (---)
Date: July 24, 2022 05:18PM

How long is the grip tenon? If it is less than 1/3 the length of the butt cap, you can extend the tenon by using a piece of a 20 mm foam arbor or using a tape arbor at the very end of the blank to make up the space. If the tenon is more than half the length of the butt cap than glue in place with the bottom of the butt cap at the end of the blank. I don’t like the butt cap over riding the end of the blank, because there is no support at the end of the butt cap. The bottom of the butt cap with the bottom of the blank makes for a more stable butt cap that won’t work loose as easily.
Norm

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Re: Gluing the butt cap question.
Posted by: Ernie Blum (---)
Date: July 24, 2022 06:22PM

Thank you for you replies. If I do extend the butt of the
blank beyond the end of the tenon and abut the bottom of the butt cap, do I fill the space with epoxy?

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Re: Gluing the butt cap question.
Posted by: Ernie Blum (---)
Date: July 24, 2022 06:27PM

To answer your question Norm, the tenon
is about 3/4 the length of the butt cap.

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Re: Gluing the butt cap question.
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
Date: July 24, 2022 06:32PM

I have 30 year old salmon/steelhead rods that get dropped, or placed on boulders, river rock and sand as part of their daily lives, none have been damaged by being installed as you appear to have in your situation.

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Re: Gluing the butt cap question.
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: July 24, 2022 06:40PM

Don't allow the butt cap to extend beyond the butt of the rod blank. You'll have problems down the road. And adding some sort of filler (epoxy) just adds weight. don't do it.

Position the rear grip so that the butt cap will fit on the tenon but fit flush with the end of the blank. Either cut the butt cap down (this is custom rod building, right?) or shim the extra space at the blank butt beyond the tenon.

.............

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Re: Gluing the butt cap question.
Posted by: Ernie Blum (---)
Date: July 24, 2022 09:47PM

Tom,

"...shim the extra space at the blank butt beyond the tenon."

I don't do this a lot (build rods). How do I do this? I'm only talking about 1/3 inch of space that will be left between the end of the tenon/rod butt and the end of the butt cap.

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Re: Gluing the butt cap question.
Posted by: Ernie Blum (---)
Date: July 24, 2022 09:53PM

Sorry....

How would I cut the butt cap and keep a perfect rim to mate with the lip of the grip at the tenon? I'd like to do that , but once again I'm not sure how to do it and keep it square.

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Re: Gluing the butt cap question.
Posted by: Ernie Blum (---)
Date: July 24, 2022 09:53PM

Sorry....

How would I cut the butt cap and keep a perfect rim to mate with the lip of the grip at the tenon? I'd like to do that , but once again I'm not sure how to do it and keep it square.

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Re: Gluing the butt cap question.
Posted by: Norman Miller (---)
Date: July 24, 2022 10:16PM

Ernie, with only a small amount of blank beyond the tenon, don’t worry about it. With the tenon being 3/4 the length of the butt cap there is enough surface area between the tenon and the butt cap to give you a good glue joint.
Norm

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Re: Gluing the butt cap question.
Posted by: chris c nash (---.atmc.net)
Date: July 24, 2022 10:46PM

I never glue butt caps , all are friction fit and I never had an issue . Always slightly smaller than the end of the blank.

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Re: Gluing the butt cap question.
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: July 25, 2022 08:50AM

Whenever I put on an over fitting butt cap as you describe, I use the lathe to cut the tenon into the end of the grip, so that the inside end of the butt cap just touches the end of the rod blank.

When when I glue on the butt cap, I place a layer of epoxy on the inner side and edges of the butt cap and push it in place and remove any excess that squeezes out with DNA.

If you have not glued the grip onto the blank, you can easily modify the tenon on the end of the butt cap, by either placing it on a mandrel and then spinning the rod grip with the lathe to use a razor knife or razor blade to extend the length of the tenon.

If you do not have a lathe, then simply take your variable speed drill and place a drill bit into the drill that is as close as possible to the size of the inside of the grip that needs to be changed. Even if you don't have a large enough bit, simply use masking tape to increase the size of the drill bit or rod that you are using to spin the grip, until you get a nice friction fit of the grip onto the drill bit or the increased size of drill bit by the masking tape.

Then, start with a pencil and a measuring device to place a mark in the grip that will be the correct final length of the tenon.

Now, start the grip rotating with either the lathe or the drill, and hold the pencil or pen against the spinning grip to get the perfect line around the rear grip.

Now you have the grip ready to have the rear tenon increased.

The best tool to do this job with is any sort of file. A 3 cornered file is about the best type of file to use, but a conventional bastard file will also work. Simply hold the surface flat and parallel to the grip and start from the edge of the existing tenon, or just a freckle toward the end of the mark in the grip and began to remove grip material with the file from the spinning grip. Work slowly and carefully, and you will have the length of the tenon increased to exactly what is needed in a minute or less.
Remove the grip, glue it on the rod and for myself, one of the last things that I do, is to glue on the butt cap.

Note: if using a drill, you can simply be seated, and do the entire operation in your lap.

Normally this entire process will take less than 5 minutes and you will be good to go with a perfectly fit tenon for the butt cap you intend to use on the rod.

No - I do not recommend that you either leave a space between the end of the blank, nor fill the space with a bunch of unnecessary epoxy.

Simply make the tenon the right length and glue thing up perfectly with minimum epoxy and you will be set.


---------------------------
The nice thing about not having a butt cap on a rod being built, is that you can use the open end of the rod blank to hold the rod secure on a power wrapper by using a tapered piece of solid stock inserted up into the butt of the rod for a friction fit. Now you have a nice solid piece of solid stock extending out from the butt of the rod that can be nicely clamped into the chuck of a power wrapper for a non slip, concentric hold on the rod as it is being built on both the wrapper and in the dryer.

Then, after everything is finished, simply glue on the butt cap as the final step in the rod creation.

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Re: Gluing the butt cap question.
Posted by: John DeMartini (---.inf6.spectrum.com)
Date: July 25, 2022 09:11AM

You did not say what the grip material was. If it is cork then get a cork ring and glue it on to the end of the tenon then shape the ring to fit the butt cap.

If it is foam get a foam ring and do the same.

Have fun

John

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Re: Gluing the butt cap question.
Posted by: Ernie Blum (---)
Date: July 25, 2022 11:29PM

Thank you all for your replies.

Roger...I do not have a lathe, but I did follow your instructions for the use of a drill. Problem solved. I was able to create a longer tenon to fit the entire butt cap. Rod butt, tenon and the end of the butt cap are all flush now. Pretty close to perfect. Thank you so much.

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Re: Gluing the butt cap question.
Posted by: Kerry Hansen (---.wavecable.com)
Date: July 26, 2022 01:33AM

The tenon keeps the Butt cap centered. Slide the blank all the way into the Butt cap that you have loaded with Rod Bond Paste epoxy. So now the cap is centered to the Butt grip and the epoxy in the bottom supplies support around the blank so it is all stable.

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